I am a US rec player and I really haven't played online seriously since Black Friday. I used to make a nice supplemental income, but it surely wasn't a living. Lots of people have given good advice here and I am aware of how hard online poker is these days compared to the "glory days." I play live now when I can and make a profit. It is still not a living because of expenses as I live 4 hours from the closest casino. I play because it is fun and I enjoy it. Me eating and paying the power bill is not dependent on my poker income. I play with money I can afford to lose. Note that I don't want to lose it, but if I do, oh well. And I am not a wealthy poker hobbyist like James Woods.

Here is my additional advice. Obviously, you have some mental leaks in your game. That has been addressed. When I get tired or start to go on tilt, I take my money and run. Or I gain control of myself quickly. With cash games, you can get up from the table anytime you want and take a break or simply cash out.

But, I don't think you are as good a player as you think you are and it appears that you do not understand the concept of variance. Reading your hand histories here tells me that. If I were you, I would approach poker as a hobby and keep working on all aspects of your game. I don't want to be mean, I don't want to even discourage you from playing poker. But, you are not ready to make a living doing it. Most of us never are, so it is no disgrace. You are young, I have kids twice your age. You have your entire life ahead of you. I wish you all the best.

Reading these comments is pretty demoralizing. I guess the poker dream is dead then.

math42, my friend, by seeing how you talk about the hands, I think your number 1 need right now is improving your play. As for the K in the river, you shouldn't even know when it came! What you should happen is:

- You make the right decision.
- You jump to the next table.
- You see your new stack in the former table when playing the next hand

Yeah, I'm just not very good lol. I think I'm pretty good at analyzing spots outside of the game when I can delve into the maths and ranges. But I haven't done enough of that sort of work to be comfortable in a variety of spots. E.g. I get tilted facing 3-bets because I haven't got a crystal clear view of how wide to continue in the various situations. That leads to me overfolding (a gross 74% fold to 3-bet over nearly 70k hands). And then I might overadjust by spew 4-betting or whatever. All comes down to needing to study the game more.

Most importantly, I don't have the right mindset. I'm still stuck in short-term results mode. I still feel mostly happy when I win a big pot even if the play was suspect and mostly angry when I lose a big pot even if the play was fine. That's obviously very natural but it shows that I'm too focused on the net result of each hand, rather than the EV in the way I played said hand.

I find that a helpful way to eliminate tilt is to realize that it neutralizes a few good plays that you already worked hard to make. Your good plays make you money. Tilting gives that money back. I'm proud of my good plays and don't want to "undo them". That's what really upsets me and thus motivates me to avoid tilting.

Honestly, not tilting is the best poker play you can make. So if you have a tilt issue and you are reading about how to improve your poker strategy knowledge you're not pursuing the most profitable sort of change you can make to your game.

You already mentioned it in the last post but to be successful at poker you really will need to accept and believe that good plays make money and bad plays lose money and it has nothing to do with who just actually won the last pot.

Gambling is risky, as everyone knows and that's why it can get you to state of a high-level pressure. My suggestion would be just to play for fun and not for the win. I just can't tell how many people improved their mental health just by doing that. You should check some online casinos that have oodles of games. There are great online casinos (like on this list) sites that offer good bonuses and aren't any sort of scam. Also, be careful when you pick online casino sites since most of them aren't secured. Check guides before starting online gambling. Wish you luck.

I should just stop playing to be honest. Winning is never as fun as losing is painful, as everyone knows. I've been absolutely seething today, constantly getting second-best hands, any aggressive action I make being punished (feels like betting top pair good kicker for one street on a dry board is thin value), never getting paid with the nuts. I'm finding it easier to avoid spewing now, so that's an improvement, but the anger isn't getting better. Then again, it's a personality thing. If I put a lot of time into pretty much anything the joy is sapped out of it. So maybe it's not a reason to stop. I dunno.

Withdrawn all my money from stars, I'm done. Just another failure. Nothing but wasted time and effort from a talentless ******. But hey, at least I can't lose money playing now. Thanks for the advice everyone. Guess I won't be coming back to this site much.

Chin up. As said for a few years now....online poker is HARD....and micros "may" be harder because you have to beat the house as well as your opponents.

You aren't the first to quit online. I haven't played a hand online since 2013, mostly because USA choices are limited but....honestly, my edge was too small over the "newer generation of players". I made a little money in the haydays with the help of a generous rakeback program. But I broke even online after Black Friday. I had over 2 million hands played online when I quit with no edge or a slight edge. Me...being a sample size of one....is not what happens to all.... but certainly not an usual outcome imo.

Good luck to you.

If time and effort are the only things you lost with gambling then you got out very well i think.

Many people that gamble lose their money, deposit more, go in debt, ruin their lives etc.

Can someone define "serious money"?

I realize the question was probably tongue-in-cheek but....

My impression would be that BASELINE means playing and winning enough to support oneself outside of mom's basement. That of course would vary depending on where you live and how frugal one chooses to live.

Double that income so there is "some" discretionary spending....and you might be approaching "serious" money.

More? Six figures per year is rarefied air would be my best guess. Maybe 1% of all poker players...?

when I look at a player like Brad Owen who undoubtedly is a good player and posts his earnings in his vlogs (I think bout 80k-ish last year?) I can't help but question whether that's worth it given that:
- you have to take care of all the ancillary expenses (travel/hotel)

- you have to pay for stuff like medical insurance and put away some of that as retirement/rainy-day money yourself...which leaves you with little discretionary money. Someone else mentioned that 1-2k a month is doable, but can you really live on that (and maybe even think about starting a family) and save up to generate some safety?

- you're not building up any skills that will tide you over when (not if) poker goes through a tougher phase (e.g. it no longer is popular or a tanking economy drives the fish away and only the tough regs remain) or you just fall out of love with the game. I.e. you're not really following a "future-proof" strategy by making it your sole source of income.

My advice would be: If you really want to make poker your source of income then get a good education first. Get a degree that's actually worth something on the job market. Have something you can easily fall back on.

I have tilt issues as well OP. I have them online but not live oddly enough. The amount of games available, the anonymity, ease of entry, speed of the game, etc. are enablers for my tilt.

Online I find it hard to regain my composure. I just keep going. I’ll move up or add more tables. Essentially so very silly thing. It becomes quick sand due to the ease and speed.

Live is slow and there are tons of people around. With all this going on I’m able to catch myself.

You should give live a try OP. It’s an easier game and a higher probability to earn money.

Edit - I just went back and read posts on this page from you OP. Stay away from poker. You don’t have the mental fortitude for this game.

Some good posts here already, particularly from ushoveicall.

Its sounds like you need to re-evaluate your entire approach to poker, and to life. You know that your mindset is f***ed, so work hard to change it. Stop being afraid of the world and find some gratitude for the position your in. I'm assuming you're debt free, have little outgoings and you have a f***ing masters degree. You have an amazing basis from which to start an incredible life.


My advice: STOP trying to be a poker pro. Change your intention from trying to make money to trying to get as good at poker as you can, and make your poker related decisions from there. Get a job, any job, and if it sucks or you suck at it, either try to improve or get another job. Save some dollar, study poker like a demon because you love it and want to get as good as you can, not because you want to make a living from it. If that happens in this day and age, it will happen as a contingency of you getting so damn good. Don't even bother thinking about whether or not you're any good now, it's irrelevant and harmful. Save some thousands from your job, go travelling somewhere cheap and beautiful, or keep working/saving and buy a house if that's what you want. Work out what sort of career you'd really like long-term, before you have big bills and don't have any choice but to work whatever crappy job available.

My point is, the world is your absolute oyster man. Make good life decisions, avoid debt as much as possible. Keep yourself fit and healthy, which is more important than poker, and more important than work.


Best of luck