1/2 nl cash game live.
effective stack 300.
UTG Folds
Utg +1 makes it 10 to go and gets two callers it folds to the button with 87o.
I am thinking its a fold with the sb and bb yet to act.
I was thinking if you were the BB and it folded to you Maybe it is a marginal call as you close the action ?
Frankly I would probably fold this on the button and might maybe maybe call had it been suited.

Your Input Please.

No brainer fold whether is on the button or blind against a 5x. You don't make money playing trash hands.

+1

Totally agree. I was the Utg +1 with AKo
and this clown got very lucky. But hey thats variance and ultimately those are the fish you want to play against in the long run.

Now you have me wondering how this hand went down postflop because when 87o hits AKo generally doesn't.

Pre Flop pot is 40

Flop is 5 K 8 rainbow.

I cbet 1/2 pot 20. Two guys Fold the guy on the button calls. (pot now 80)

Turn is an 8

I think about checking and decide to bet 30. He jams.
His Bet SCREAMS trips .
I decided to call him because I still have outs with the King in addition to a really stupid reason. I dont like the guy and want to bust him even though I know I am probably behind.

River is a brick. He wins a hand he should have not been in to begin with.
BUT HES STILL A FISH.

That's what I figured. He invested $30 and got you to put in an additional $270 with 95% equity.

@Kelvis yup. Then he says if your flop bet was bigger I would have folded.
I just Thought Hey ultimately I had 1 pair and if you are stupid enough to call pre flop he was stupid enough to call 60 instead of 30.
He got lucky on a hand he should have never been in and I was dumb knowing i only had 2 outs.

Calling $10 pre-flop with 87o is fishy.
Calling $260 post-flop with AK vs a shove on K588 is roughly twenty-six times as fishy.

It's Hellmuthian logic to call villain a fish for his small mistake when you're the one that made the big mistake.

Re. your initial question, it's a fold.

Re. your actual question, yes you did make a bad call based on the information you provided.

Also turn bet should be a bit more than 30. A fish has a bunch of Kx here, we just counterfeited K5 and a fish may get stubborn with mid pockets and only one overcard on the board.

The idea is to punish fish calling with junk, not pay them off. That's why bet/fold is so powerful against them, you started well with pre, flop and turn bets and then threw it all away with a turn call. This is essentially why some fishy types end up deepstacked and looking smug, people can't believe what they will call with, get annoyed about it and then pay them off when the fish always has it.

So you bet $30 into $80 on the turn, he ships $270 and you call?

If you find someone to regularly pay you off 150BB deep with TP against trips, that's obviously a pretty good reason to call hands like that.

I get the sarcasim. At Least I understood I was rolling the dice while probably far behind.

Ok thanks for the input guys.

A couple of suggestions, OP.

First: At 1/2 live, you make a ton of money against typical casual players who can't fold TP or an over pair. Don't be that guy.

Second: At 1/2 live, facing a huge over bet, you need to have something close to the nuts to call. They are not shoving light anywhere near often enough to make calling profitable.

I've plugged this book in BQ before, but if you're going to play 1/2 live, read Ed Miller's "The Course."

But seriously, the number one deciding factor how many hands you can profitably play preflop is your postflop ability compared to the other players.

As was said in the previous post, ‘don’t be that guy’ that allows for others to play a super wide range preflop profitably. Instead you should make it unprofitable for them to play that many hands and the way to achieve that is to not make big mistakes postflop.

@Kurn thanks for the book suggestion (i have read 2 poker books and this would seem to be a good 3rd one)
And thanks to everyone else from some good pointers.

This is a horrible way to think about what happened.

Now before you go and automatically assume you can't call with a pair here; that's not entirely true. If you're raising full ring UTG+1 you probably have exactly 0 combinations with an 8 in it and you might not want to have 55 as well since it plays horribly from that position.

When you bet flop and turn you don't have QQ or less and given you're out of position against 3 players you really shouldn't have any bluffs here any more. So if you're betting a king or better for value you have KQs, AK, AA and KK here. He is risking a ton so you can fold a lot of hands here so KQs is an easy fold and KK is an obvious call. Then you have 12 combinations of AK and 6 of AA and you can't only call with KK because that's only 3 out of 24 combinations. He bets 270 into 110 so you can fold pretty much fold 70% of your hands and if you want to exploit the population tendencies you fold a little more because he's not too likely to be clowning around. However, just calling KK has you fold 88% so you need to be extremely sure he isn't ever tarding it up.

So then out of AK and AA you need to find a few hands to call with and obviously the AA are better than AK since you don't block a king, which makes it more likely he is spewtarding with Kx and you actually beat a terribly played AK. So in other words you sometimes need to call with aces to prevent being exploitable, if you have a really strong read you can fold those as well. AK never needs to be a call here.

I treat UTG+1 raising 5x the same I would UTG raising 4x. I'd consider that a strong bet, and fold 78o. Kind of a tough question because every opponent has their own variance. Some players only play AK-AQ-PP and others will play any connectors or any suited and 30-40% of the time it pays off, as this did. This is why Durr is such a tough opponent because his variance is ridiculous, he never makes the same plays with the same two cards regardless of position. With his preflop call, you have 0% chance of putting him on 7-8 which is why he managed to do that. Play this hand 100 times and you'll come out the winner, he wont lol. Let him have it, oh wells

5x opening raise at 1/2 does not indicate anything special. Super standard.