When calculating pot odds, do you count your own bet into the pot size.

Eg:

Pot is 600. Bet is 300. Therefore pot is 900

300 to call. 900/300 = 3/1 or 33%

(This is the way I originally did it)

Or

Bet size / pot size +bet size + call size

300 / 600+300+300 = 25%

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

If you have questions like this, it might be easiest to visualize the problem and actually see what the correct answer is.

Put 6 apples in the center of the table. That’s the pot. Add 3 more apples, that’s your opponents bet size. Leave 3 apples in front of you, that’s your potential call. So right now, there are 9 apples in the center of the table and 3 apples in front of you.

Now play out that call scenario 3 times by moving your apples to the center with you winning once. Count your total amount of apples and divide that number by 3 to see how many you have on average.
Then you do the same thing but run it 4 times and divide by 4.

Which scenario leaves you with an average of 3 apples?

Cheers man that was helpful.

Running it 4 times gives you the average of 3.

So you do count your bet as well, yes?

Please excuse my ignorance!

no u do not.

to put it simply, the "odds" (e.g. 4:1 pot odds) basically mean "how much i can win : how much I invest for that win"

Whats in the pot, or the "how much i can win" side of the ratio, you do not own. while the investment you have to make is what you already own.

so in ur scenario, pot is 600. V bets 300. pot is now 900.

you have to invest 300 to win 900. so 900:300 or 3:1 pot odds.

if you win, you get 900 for your 300. NOT 1200 for your 300.

also, you want to make sure you understand the difference between odds, and percentages/fraction ratios.


3/1 does not mean the same thing as 3:1

[ ] great explanation.

OP needs to own an orchard

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But with 3:1 odds (calling 300 with 900 in the pot) it'd be 25% not 33% right?

To get the odds you do your bet and how many times it goes into the pot, so 3:1 since 300 goes into 900 3 times. Which means the percentage would be 25%?

This is a bit unclear, do you mean calling a bet of 300 with 600 in the pot to win 900 in total?

3:1 does correspond to 25% equity.

There we go ...

Odds are Pot v Call ... So 900 to 300 ... 3 to 1 (no percentages used)

Equity is what 'your' call's percentage of the pot would be ... 300/1200, 25%

So the terms are mathematically related since they use the same 'data' in calculating. Most advanced Players convert to percentages from odds so they can compare that to the equity of their holding using the Board and the other Player's range.

Players use Odds to get to (pot) Equity and then compare that to their perceived Equity of their holding. If you are still on a draw then you compare your Pot Equity to your Draw Equity (outs). If your Draw Equity is 'more than' your Pot Equity then you are making a +EV call, meaning in the long run this is a good call.

Newer Players can use some 'simple' pot odd rules to evaluate their draws (Flush draw, OESD, OESFD, Set, Two Pair) and somewhat ignore the other Player's possible holdings. GL

I try to avoid calling and avoid calculating pot odds based on whether my draw will hit. i'd rather raise. unless i start getting check-raised or i know im going to get re-raised by strength and depending on stack sizes and pot size.

You don't need to calculate it when there's three other players in the pot and one player bets the min on the flop followed by 2 limps and you have 9 outs. just call. and there's also implied odds to factor in which i rarely try to calculate while at the table. I just have a rough idea and feel about it all. i just feel my opponent will punt of his stack on later streets and call/raise him depending on stack sizes/rough idea of the pot size.

pot is 600 and he then bets 300.

It's 900 divided by 300 aka 3 to 1
aka 1 in 4
aka 25%

In other words if he is all in then you'll need about 6 outs to call if it's on the flop and approx 12 outs if the all in occurred on the turn

This can be pretty confusing to a beginner, knowing the difference between odds, probabality, and equity. They are really the same thing, expressed differently, but they are each used slightly differently.

OP, my advice to you is this-when doing your calculations, always use the same convention. Either always use odds, always use probabability, or always use equity. I personally always use equity, as it is the most useful for calculating EV with multiple outcomes, but find out what you think is easiest, and just be consistent.