Let me paint the picture, early-ish blind level in a poker final mtt. This young hotshot is telling everyone they are shi.t players and commenting on peoples mistakes e.t.c.
I stayed quiet and i must admit i was enjoying the feathers being ruffled left right and center. But there was one particular move i saw him do that really had me scratching my chin and left me thinking "isn't that kind of wrong?"
utg raised 3xbb and he 3 bet 2/3rds of the pot from utg+1 (10 seater) and after the hand played out he showed a2s.
What are your thoughts on this specific move here? My hunch tells me it isn't wise but i'm not sure
So the question is basically just “can you profitably 3bet A2s from UTG+1 vs UTG”?
That depends on several factors but here’s a scenario where you certainly can:
UTG opens relatively wide and you can 3bet JJ+/AQs+ for value. In that situation A2s-A5s are among the first hands added as 3bets/fold hands to balance your range. Because there are 8 players left to act, you should also be confident your 3bet looks strong enough that the only hands that 4bet are KK+. Stacksizes obviously play an important factor in that, too.
So the question is basically just “can you profitably 3bet A2s from UTG+1 vs UTG”?
That depends on several factors but here’s a scenario where you certainly can:
UTG opens relatively wide and you can 3bet JJ+/AQs+ for value. In that situation A2s-A5s are among the first hands added as 3bets/fold hands to balance your range. Because there are 8 players left to act, you should also be confident your 3bet looks strong enough that the only hands that 4bet are KK+. Stacksizes obviously play an important factor in that, too.
My mind is blown at this reply. Thank you for that.
What are the odds someone overcalls now were playing our 3b bluff hand oop.
Having an utg+1 vs utg 3b range seems ******ed and unnecessary to me , correct me if I'm wrong, but, this seems like agression for the sake of being agressive and -ev
OP, would you and most others at the table play AQs or 88 when in the other positions versus that action? So would you do anything but fold on the button if UTG raised and UTG+1 3bet and you have AQs?
OP, would you and most others at the table play AQs or 88 when in the other positions versus that action? So would you do anything but fold on the button if UTG raised and UTG+1 3bet and you have AQs?
Right or wrong I’d personally button call with aq and I’m confident most of the other players would as well. There’d be no aq 4 betting though.
Cold calling the 3bet with hands like AQ is pretty bad even on the button. There’s still 3 players left to act including an UTG opener. If you have several players at the table who do that, your 3betting range should definitely be extremely value heavy.
[because you see that pretty frequently in small stakes tournaments, I put the caveat that you shouldn’t 3bet A2s if players cold call liberally]
Right or wrong I’d personally button call with aq and I’m confident most of the other players would as well. There’d be no aq 4 betting though.
So that right there is a huge mistake. If, and that is a big if, he has a balanced 3bet range there that happens to include A2s, he makes less money by getting cold calls from AQ but he should still be relatively unexploitable. Because you won´t fold AQ I would never bluff in his spot because exploiting you makes me more money, but he will never lose money there. Your call however loses a ton of money.
So that right there is a huge mistake. If, and that is a big if, he has a balanced 3bet range there that happens to include A2s, he makes less money by getting cold calls from AQ but he should still be relatively unexploitable. Because you won´t fold AQ I would never bluff in his spot because exploiting you makes me more money, but he will never lose money there. Your call however loses a ton of money.
I'm very open minded and here to learn so when i ask about your comment "that right there is a huge mistake" do you mean he is making a huge mistake or I am making a huge mistake by calling aq on the button? Sorry your wording was a little ambiguous is all.
You're saying it wouldn't be wise to 3bet A2s from that position, so in other words don't bluff. Why would you call AQ against that action then if you assume there shouldn't be any bluffs in that spot?
Except in really soft games where I expect to get called very often (such that I never 3-bet light), this is a totally standard 3-bet for me.
The optimal balancing hands for your premium 3-bets in that spot (KK+/AK) are A5s-A2s, since they block AA/AK, and have decent equity vs a calling range of QQ-88.
In position 3-bet ranges are somewhat polarized. Suited aces tend to be the best "3-bet bluffs", since they retain nut-making equity even when called by strong hands. It would be much worse if villain had decided to 3-bet K8o or A2o or 94s, since these hands play horribly post-flop.
