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Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament

09-18-2020 , 07:20 PM
Freeroll tournament final table, 9 handed. blinds 300/600.


Stacks after blinds:
SB (Hero): 3390
BB: 250

SB is dealt 32o. Folds to SB. What to do here?

I don't think calling makes sense since BB is commited.

I have no reads on BB, so it should be reasonable to assume BB will never fold to a shove here. If i shove i'd be risking 550 to gain 1700 so if this was a cash game i'd need 550/1700≈32.3% equity to shove. 32o has aproximately 32.3% equity against a random hands, therefore a shove is approximately 0 EV. So if this was a cash game i'd need to calculate the equity to higher precision to know whether fold is better than shoving. But this is a tournament. Does the fact that this is a tournament make shoving better or worse (or does it depend on payment structure?)?
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 05:32 AM
There's ICM for this kind of things.
I guess that the chance of a player out makes you want to shove atc.
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 05:52 AM
Call, if only because you badly need chips
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iblis
There's ICM for this kind of things.
I guess that the chance of a player out makes you want to shove atc.
Since it's roughly 0 EV, i'd think ICM says shove is bad, since chips risked are worth more than chips won. Am i correct?
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 10:51 AM
your calculations are correct, shoving is pretty much exactly cev0. And yes, as you mentioned, ICM dictates that it is a fold. I'm not an expert on ICM, but I think that if the 2 of you were 2 shortest stacks at the table it might be different, as you would benefit greatly from getting the payjump (correct me if I'm wrong please)
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 12:35 PM
I have a problem with the numbers. If villain’s stack is 250, hero’s risk is 250 with a shove. I’m not sure what the 550 value refers to in the OP.

For a 250 shove, chip EV is positive if total pot after all bets is 1700 (required equity is 250/1700 = 15%), which calls for a shove. Whether that same decision should be made considering ICM would depend on stack and prize distributions. For a sample I tried where hero has a middle stack, it’s pretty close, shove vs fold.
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 01:55 PM
550 because he first needs 300 to match the BB
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote
09-19-2020 , 03:13 PM
Of course
Borderline shove against very small stack in tournament Quote

      
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