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Beginner's guide to tournaments Beginner's guide to tournaments

01-13-2021 , 09:29 AM
Hey everyone!

I am a 21-year-old college student. I've been playing poker occasionally with my friends for the past 3 or so years. Only in the past month did I start playing for real cash on ggpoker. Very soon, I realized that I wasn't very good with cash games but seemed to perform exceptionally well in MTTs for a beginner. However, a very common issue that prevented me from finishing ITM was that I'd run really well and play well in the beginning, get into the top 20 or so in almost every tournament I play. But all of a sudden, it'd seem like I start to lose focus, play a few bad hands and then go all-in in desperation, only to crash and burn. This has been happening almost every time.

Would love to get some insights from the veterans as to how I could improve.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
01-13-2021 , 10:10 AM
Google push-fold charts for shortstack play and read up on the concept of ICM.
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01-13-2021 , 02:40 PM
Tournaments are high-variance games. It’s quite possible that you’re just as bad at tournaments as you are at cash games, but ran lucky for a while. I know it happened to me a while back — in 200 or so player MTTs with a $1 buy in, I had 2 wins, a 2nd and a 4th place finish with a few other mincashes over the course of about 15 tournaments. I’m just a rec playing micros; there’s no way that was reflective of some great tourney play on my part; just dumb luck. For the record, I just hit a mincash in my last such tournament, breaking a streak of about 15 in a row without any payout. Such is MTT play.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
01-14-2021 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombos21
Google push-fold charts for shortstack play and read up on the concept of ICM.
100% Agree . If your just starting out with playing Online for real money, it's gonna take time to really fine tune exactly what kind of games your best at. Some people start with one form of game and end up playing something completely different (ex. MTT's to PLO...It's been happening a lot lately, no clue why lol). I wouldn't take it hard, just study, practice, and find the games that you love to play.

Push/Fold Charts for Shortstack play would help you out big time if MTT's is your game. Studying at first can seem really challenging, starting off with studying for 30-45 min and then use the next session as a means to incorporate what you've learned from studying into your game. Continue following that method with other material you study. It's not an overnight success kind of thing, it takes a long time to get good, and you're never done learning. Good luck dude!
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01-14-2021 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedcube
get into the top 20 or so in almost every tournament I play
This is a lie.
Unless you've played like 3 tournaments.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
01-21-2021 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyXRoyal
100% Agree . If your just starting out with playing Online for real money, it's gonna take time to really fine tune exactly what kind of games your best at. Some people start with one form of game and end up playing something completely different (ex. MTT's to PLO...It's been happening a lot lately, no clue why lol). I wouldn't take it hard, just study, practice, and find the games that you love to play.

Push/Fold Charts for Shortstack play would help you out big time if MTT's is your game. Studying at first can seem really challenging, starting off with studying for 30-45 min and then use the next session as a means to incorporate what you've learned from studying into your game. Continue following that method with other material you study. It's not an overnight success kind of thing, it takes a long time to get good, and you're never done learning. Good luck dude!
Could you suggest some specific resources to go after? The very first series of books I read was Harrington on Expert Hold'em Strategy. I read through all three volumes at least 5 times. Currently, I'm going through Will Tipton's book. Are these going to be helpful? Are there any other more effective resources?

P.S. Sorry for the late reply
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
01-21-2021 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
This is a lie.
Unless you've played like 3 tournaments.
I never said I finish in the top 20. I've never even had a mincash. I just said that 1.5-2 hours into the tournament, I am almost always in a decent position. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
01-27-2021 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedcube
I never said I finish in the top 20. I've never even had a mincash. I just said that 1.5-2 hours into the tournament, I am almost always in a decent position. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.
It's certainly possible, but not at all likely. Unless, like he said, you've played 3 tournaments.
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01-27-2021 , 10:29 PM
Going deep but never cashing is a symptom of tight, passive play. You stay out of trouble, but rarely win big pots. By the time you get closer to the bubble, you are too short stacked to play anything but shove or fold.

This is a valid strategy if you just want to min cash. Play super tight with no bluff range until you get down to about 10-15 bb, then switch to an aggressive short stack strategy and hope you get lucky a time or two and can make it to the bubble.

This is not, however, good enough if you actually want to ladder up to the bigger cashes. There are a ton of concepts you will have to learn to be able to be a good enough post flop player that you can build up your stack duing the early and middle parts of an MTT.
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07-23-2021 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
Going deep but never cashing is a symptom of tight, passive play. You stay out of trouble, but rarely win big pots. By the time you get closer to the bubble, you are too short stacked to play anything but shove or fold.

This is a valid strategy if you just want to min cash. Play super tight with no bluff range until you get down to about 10-15 bb, then switch to an aggressive short stack strategy and hope you get lucky a time or two and can make it to the bubble.

This is not, however, good enough if you actually want to ladder up to the bigger cashes. There are a ton of concepts you will have to learn to be able to be a good enough post flop player that you can build up your stack duing the early and middle parts of an MTT.

hey that makes a lot of sense now and this seems to be my problem too. after reaching the money i get tighter and dont play as aggressive as in early game. Is there any specific course you can suggest or video/article or anything that I can watch or read on that subject? Or can you expand more on that subject and maybe give some tips?

I always thought that players get tighter as getting deeper thus I have to play better hands too.
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07-25-2021 , 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldFolded

I always thought that players get tighter as getting deeper thus I have to play better hands too.
Winning strategy is actually the exact opposite. As the blinds get higher and people tighten up, you have to get more aggressive.

Also, in the early phases, when stacks are deep, most players play too many hands. Bad players play too loose when deep and too tight when shallow. Winning players do the opposite.
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07-25-2021 , 12:43 PM
I think it's way too early to dive deep into possible flaws in your strategy. You have a lot to study and a lot of poker to play. But the first concept you should learn is variance, poker has lots of it...
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07-26-2021 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
Winning strategy is actually the exact opposite. As the blinds get higher and people tighten up, you have to get more aggressive.

Also, in the early phases, when stacks are deep, most players play too many hands. Bad players play too loose when deep and too tight when shallow. Winning players do the opposite.

Yes, I get that but in late stages of tourneys the average stacks are 20-30bb how aggressive i can become with these stack sizes? and aggressive doesnt mean looser I guess because then I be spewing money just to be aggressive
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07-27-2021 , 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldFolded
Yes, I get that but in late stages of tourneys the average stacks are 20-30bb how aggressive i can become with these stack sizes? and aggressive doesnt mean looser I guess because then I be spewing money just to be aggressive
First you need to recognize which players behind you are playing too tight, and those who act before you are shoving smaller stacks with a wider range.

Start with the idea that around 20-25 BB, you are in shove/fold mode if it's raised when the action gets to you. Push/fold charts should give you a good starting point for estimating opponents' ranges.

When you're a bit deeper, like 35 BB, think of raising into stacks your size or slightly smaller. Be careful raising into small stacks and large stacks. Smaller stacks shove wider out of desperation (and you're often priced in and have to call) and larger stacks will call, leaving you tougher decisions post flop.

The Harrington on Holdem tournament books, while seriously outdated for higher level tournaments, still give you a reasonable basic understanding of how to approach lower buy-in tournaments.

I'm a big fan of trying this: Enter a tourney that's like 10% of your normal buy-in level (or less, if possible). Tape something on your screen so you can't see your cards. Now play only knowing position, stack sizes and opponents' tendencies, since those things, taken together, are actually at least as important as what cards you hold, and you have to learn those things to be successful.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
07-27-2021 , 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldFolded
Yes, I get that but in late stages of tourneys the average stacks are 20-30bb how aggressive i can become with these stack sizes? and aggressive doesnt mean looser I guess because then I be spewing money just to be aggressive
If the field is getting weak tight, which happens around the bubble, or even shortly after the bubble (though, be aware of short stacks looking to shove as soon as they make the money), then you should be playing more hands, and you should be playing more hands to exploit. Of course, you shouldn't go into super aggro spew mode (unless your table is totally passive), but at 20 to 30 bb, you need to 1) be stealing a fair number of blinds, 2) setting up a loose image to increase your chances of a big hand when you have a monster. You want the better players to be aware of what you are doing, but still wary of you. Widening your range a bit makes you unpredictable. Being super tight or super loose, though, is predictable and exploitable.
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
07-27-2021 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
If the field is getting weak tight, which happens around the bubble, or even shortly after the bubble (though, be aware of short stacks looking to shove as soon as they make the money), then you should be playing more hands, and you should be playing more hands to exploit. Of course, you shouldn't go into super aggro spew mode (unless your table is totally passive), but at 20 to 30 bb, you need to 1) be stealing a fair number of blinds, 2) setting up a loose image to increase your chances of a big hand when you have a monster. You want the better players to be aware of what you are doing, but still wary of you. Widening your range a bit makes you unpredictable. Being super tight or super loose, though, is predictable and exploitable.
There isnt much stuff I can do post flop with 20-30bb though. If i get called 2-3 times I will be left with less than 20bb
Beginner's guide to tournaments Quote
07-27-2021 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
First you need to recognize which players behind you are playing too tight, and those who act before you are shoving smaller stacks with a wider range.

Start with the idea that around 20-25 BB, you are in shove/fold mode if it's raised when the action gets to you. Push/fold charts should give you a good starting point for estimating opponents' ranges.

When you're a bit deeper, like 35 BB, think of raising into stacks your size or slightly smaller. Be careful raising into small stacks and large stacks. Smaller stacks shove wider out of desperation (and you're often priced in and have to call) and larger stacks will call, leaving you tougher decisions post flop.

The Harrington on Holdem tournament books, while seriously outdated for higher level tournaments, still give you a reasonable basic understanding of how to approach lower buy-in tournaments.

I'm a big fan of trying this: Enter a tourney that's like 10% of your normal buy-in level (or less, if possible). Tape something on your screen so you can't see your cards. Now play only knowing position, stack sizes and opponents' tendencies, since those things, taken together, are actually at least as important as what cards you hold, and you have to learn those things to be successful.
Very nice info! Thanks
Any other books with more modern strategy for low-mid stakes would you suggest?
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