In WCG's thread he suggest a BR of 20BI's. After +- 10k hands, I turned my 5$ into 50 and I'd like to try and take a shot at short stacking 5NL. Once I reach 55$

Is still doable or should I wait till I have a little more before taking shots?

It depends on your skill level (which is correlated with winrate, obviously) and your "comfort factor". If you can play solidly while under-rolled (i.e. you don't become "scared money" when half your roll is in play, and/or you can deposit new funds if you go busto) then you can take shots whenever you feel like it.

I've built rolls up from 5 buy-ins. I've also had downswings of 15-20 buyins. (And I've only won about 15 buyins in my last 100,000 hands; a "breakeven" stretch which has destroyed my passion for the game).

This graph is from my PG&C thread where I used an aggro/crazy BRM strategy of "Got 5 buyins? Let's move up!"
On a 14bb/100 heater, I went from 4NL to 50NL in <25,000 hands. With "standard" BRM, it would have taken me about a quarter of a million hands.



FWIW, I've since moved back down to lower stakes, because I found the swings were too mentally taxing at 50NL. It was quite fun taking shots though.
In my experience, if you don't take aggressive shots, you get "trapped" in the high rake environment of the micros for years, and it eventually kills your desire to play.

After reading the above, i got inspired and decided to take my shot. I fired up two fast holdem tables of 5NL half stacked and played on godmode. After that I did the same with the regular format still half stacking. My reads were fire and less than 1200 hands later I walked off with enough to sustain my shot for atleast a little while. People at 2NL arguably play tougher than 5NL at least in my experience. At 5NL it seems like they just love three barrel bluffing with air against an obvious made hand. I don't feel like I'll be here for too long unless I hit another downswing. Next goal is 100$ so i can take short stack 10NL and fullstack 5NL

It depends on a number of factors. Recreational players can play with as low as half a buy in, whereas semi-pros should have more rigorous standards and professionals (who rely on gambling as their only source of income) must be even stricter. For a limit like NLHE$5, you don't really need sound bankroll management, because usually the $50 or whatever is fairly easily replaced.

Yeah unless you are doing this with your original investment on general principle, you can just deposit $100 or whatever and play 5NL if you feel ready. BTW it's tougher than 2NL. You'll find that out eventually, hopefully god mode stays switched on for a while, it's fun.

Just be prepared to move back down if you have a bad run. A lot of top players built their rolls by taking 2 buy-in shots* until they became regs at the next level up. If you happened to lose $10 at 5NL, it's easy enough - if you have the discipline - to go back to 2NL and grind for 5 buyins, and then take another shot when you're ready.

* A lot of bad, or unlucky, or crazy, players take a shot at one limit and when that fails, they move UP. That strat almost always ends up in disaster. Just take shots with money that you can afford to lose and just try having fun. GL!

Pokersnowie has been a great help in all of this. It gave me the foundation i needed to build on. I am still figuring things out things like bluff-raise squeezing with suited connectors.

I remember you suggested I widen my button open range, which works so well on the low VPIP's. I am also experimenting with widening my Cutoff range.

Also, checking back OOP like snowie suggests, after I hit the board, is printing money compared to my pre snowie approach. Tho I feel like Snowie misses some good bluffing opportunities.

just squeeze with 67s 87s 98s A3s when your on the button or cutoff. aggressive play is GTO Bet bet bet. just don't do it 10BB deep and utg is 10-30BB deep in mtts. its better if the stacks are bigger. and don't do it live if he bets then looks at his opponents. unless hes capable of tell vpn. pokerstars hate vpns.

check-raising can be GTO too. but if your betting all the time betting straightforwardly is more GTO and playing like bot. play like bot. bots win.

I could be wrong or right but you will need a roll that gives your enough money to play. especially if you don't know what your doing you could lose until you figure out the math. 40% of 1 max buyin could be enough or 4000 full buyins.

hope this helps.

Are you playing for fun or trying to actually derive your living funds from poker? When it is for fun, then the traditional notions of BRM cease to hold the same level of need as when your ability to pay bills is riding on the outcome of your play...

Not yet for a living would be a little difficult to make a living of 2-10NL, but I am taking this money very seriously and I don't want my roll to bust this time.

Short: no.

20BI never was adequate for a poker roll.

It's either far too much for shot taking and it's nowhere near enough for to actually roll yourself in games if you make a living playing them and can't/shouldn't move down as it's a loss of EV.

10BI -> lose 2 BI move back down

Basically if you go busto at 2nl reload

5nl up at 50 back down at 40
10nl up at 100 back down at 80
16nl up at 160 back down at 125
25nl up at 250 back down at 200
50nl up at 500 back down at 400
100nl up at 1000 back down at 800
200nl up at 2000 back down at 1600

Is probably on the side of far too nitty as a player moving up and shot taking the higher limits. The issue is people like to think of themselves as being at a level so a 50nl player would never want to play 10nl as it's below them and with this approach you have to move up and down a lot. There is also a hell of a lot of increase in skill as you move up so you'd definitely be a loser at a certain point but you're meant to be learning and getting better as you do this.

The optimal game selection should always be flexible; that said, rules are important because we're humans and make errors and are susceptible to biases when assessing situations and rationalising things. That said, everyone's room for error is different, and as such, BRM rules should be specific to the person.

Generally speaking I think people benefit from bigger margins when shot taking because moving up and down stakes can often be difficult for people, and also those decision should be based on things like rake, game availability, and so on.

I am a big believer in dipping toes in water when shot taking. Don't just move your entire volume up to a higher stake, just play when it's soft and you're A game, and slowly move more of your volume there as you get better and more comfortable.

if you take the game seriously 20 BI are not enough.
You can and will lose 10BI in literally an hour playing. Will happen at some point.

i think you can definitely have a 10 BI downswing over however many hands due to variance but i dont think 1hour of play is a good measure it would need to be hands. i only play 1-2 tables at a time so in an hour i only see 160 hands and im 99% convinced it'd be impossible for me to lose 10 BI in 160 hands playing a competent strategy.

now if you play 6-12 tables at one time then thats a lot more hands in one hour and ya a 10 BI downswing might be possible. this is the reason i dont like to multi table because i dont think you can realy play your hands well with that many tables going and i also think the swings are felt quicker which can induce tilt easier.

That doesn't really matter though, his point still stands.