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Old 02-18-2019, 06:19 PM   #1
Little Sparra
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Average Pot versus Players per flop

When selecting a table to join, I always check the average pot size and the players/flop % and am always confused as to why there usually seems to be an inverse relationship between these 2 sets of figures. I would expect that more players seeing a flop would result in higher average pot sizes, but this does not seem to be the case and I would be grateful if someone could answer the following 2 questions.

1. Why does the average pot size tend to fall when there are more players seeing a flop?

2, When selecting a table is it best to choose tables with a higher average pot size, or tables with more players seeing a flop?
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:24 PM   #2
sixfour
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Re: Average Pot versus Players per flop

I'm guessing this is just a sample size/selection bias issue and this isn't actually the case
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:00 AM   #3
browni3141
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Re: Average Pot versus Players per flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour View Post
I'm guessing this is just a sample size/selection bias issue and this isn't actually the case
I agree. However, I speculate that if what OP says is true then it may be because high vpip players also very frequently tend to be passive. In live 1|2 games I've played it's actually pretty common for 6/9 players to see a flop and ship $30 pots back and forth all day.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:23 AM   #4
Little Sparra
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Re: Average Pot versus Players per flop

Thanks for your replies.

Perhaps it is partly just sample size, but I think something else I may have missed relates to tables which either have, or have just recently only had 2 or 3 players. Heads up tables will by definition have high players/flop % and low average pot size.

When selecting a fishy micro stakes table is it best to target tables with high players/flop % or high average pot size?
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:10 AM   #5
sixfour
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Re: Average Pot versus Players per flop

Yeah, a table that has been playing very short handed will also show this tendency to be fair
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:22 PM   #6
ArtyMcFly
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Re: Average Pot versus Players per flop

The "players/flop %" stat is badly labeled. It doesn't mean how many players saw a flop. It actually means "The proportion of hands dealt that reach a flop."
So in heads up and short-handed games there will be more flops seen, because people play wider ranges short-handed. Those pots will be quite small though, as the post-flop action often goes check-bet-fold.
That stat is only really useful if you're comparing several tables that are in the same format and with exactly the same number of players. e.g. a full ring table with all 9 players sitting in that has a high players/flop means there are probably a couple of high VPIP players, and/or there's not much 3-betting and folding going on.

"Average pot" is probably an even less useful metric, as on some sites, it's just taking the average of the last 10 pots or so. One big cooler between a couple of nits will inflate the average pot size and give you the wrong impression of how splashy a table is.

A better stat to use (if it's available) is VPIP. On Stars I used to rank tables by VPIP, while filtering them to having 8+ (full ring) or 5+ (6-max) players.

I thought Stars was getting rid of table-selection though. I play Zoom, and presumed that everything had switched to "quick seat" by now. :/
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