Hi guys, I urgently wanted your help with my first ever question posted on the internet (to your self) of a hand played yesterday in a live $650 live event

I was in day 2 of this tourney with a great strucrue and 1 hour clocks, 167 entries total, 60 made day 2, 23 paid, 33 left, first was $35,000

I got 225k blinds are 1500-3000, 75bb

My image could seen as maybe opening alot from utg and as little agressive

Table was preety tight imo, i open utg with AK off, to 7k

Utg plus 2 flat call with a stack of 140, he is an oldish (52 ish in age) recreational tight player who plays his made hand really fast

Utg plus 3 who has around 160k also flat, who is also old ish flats also, he tends to be a more agressive player who opens alot ie 45 off from early pos, seen to 3bet alot etc

The button who is a young chinise boy has 300k who i have not seen squeeze much but looks like a player that can bluff

He squeezes to 25k so not too big, sb tanks for a min and fold, what should i do here?

Pot is now 54k, should i flat? 4bet? If 4bet why and to how much and 4 bet to fold or get it in with 75bb, or should i fold

I will be honest with you i didnt know what to do in this hand, my gut told me to 4 bet to ermm 60 65 or 70 k? To fold too a jam? But i thought i dont want to get in 75 with ak so i flat to see what i would hit

Both limpers called, flop came k85 with 2 hearts, i chk, utg plus 2 first tight old guy open donk jams 114k other old man and chinise boy folds i call? With ak, top pair top kicker, old man has set of 555 i lose most my chips and bust the tourney not long after , after being so deep

I am really upset and confused on how this hand should be played

I would be most gratefull if you can help me with hand

Kindest regards

Tom

Not really an mtt player, but I would probably 4bet and fold to 5bet here. I think flat is also ok. Most random lowish stakes live guys are gonna have plenty of hands to fold here but aren't really gonna 5bet without KK+ in my limited experience.

Your read was he was squeezing, and you have one of the best preflop hands ever created. Put him to the test and 4 bet it. You get the pocket 5’s to fold and likely the player who squeezed.

4 bet then what if he jams? What size?

4 bet to what size? Why fold?

Please other mtt experienced players also please help tyyyy

Do you trust your reads?

Did you even read my post? I explained why I personally would fold to 5bet.

Yes i do, why

"tight player who plays his made hand really fast"


When he when all-in, what did you think he had?

Flush draw, kq, kj

So he had no sets, but he had KJ? Seems ... wishful.

I agree with $65-70K 4bet and fold to any 5 bet here. I just think you always have to 4 bet that spot especially if your read is somebody messing around. You get all middle pairs to fold pre.

Oubvisly he has sets 55, 88 but he has more hands we beat in his range,

So you would fold ak, on k85 non rainbow board, as he could have a set?

Your answer makes the most sense, but why are we folding ak, we block aa kk and fliping against any pairs, are we scared of as kk is that why your folding here?

With what hands does a player you describe as "tight" call your 7k raise and then call the 25k re-raise from the button?


When the flop comes out there is 90k in the pot (if I added it up correctly) and the "tight" player who "plays his made hands fast" has 114k in his stack. What made hands is he betting? How often is he bluffing?


ETA: I'm not saying you did anything right or wrong in this hand. Just asking questions to see what your thinking was.

A 5 bet by any of those players is an all-in for their tournament life and they have either QQ, KK, AA, or AK. I think blockers is more valid post flop than preflop. I think a 5-bet all in gives way more information than there’s an A and a K missing from their possible hands.

For instance, if you see a flop like the one you mentioned, so you have TPTK and they’re playing back pretty hard; you could use the ace blocker to somewhat eliminate AA as their hand. Doing that analysis preflop seems optimistic.

lots of bad advice itt, I understand that this is a beginners forum, but OP clearly has some clue, so you should try to give more nuanced advice

first of all, dont fold underrepresented TPTK to 1psb shove on the flop, like, ever. Our reads here are not nearly strong enough to even consider a fold in this spot.

preflop, this is one of the rare spots where we like flatting a 3bet oop - with those positions, 4betting would essentially mean turning our very strong hand into a bluff (or a bit of ICM nightmare if we 4bet/call). Flatting will let other with dominated ranges in, plus AK with those stack depths is really easy to play - if you hit the flop, you are essentially never folding (barring some extreme scenarios), and if you miss, you have essentially air multiway

additionally, we are not that far from the bubble, so taking a lower variance line is also benefitial

so, yeah, overall well played

Flop is very obviously a mandatory call, but I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise.

Totally disagree with this. There isn't really much icm pressure here, nits aren't even gonna roll it in pre with AK in this spot, and playing AKo OOP 4way is obviously a spot where stuff like this will happen a lot -- when we have tptk we're probably mostly stacking vs hands like decent draws, sets, and occasionally a hand like AQ-AT.

Yeah we can't fold obviously, but I think pre we'll take it down a solid 50-60% of the time with a 4bet, go post hu vs a very defined range 20-30% of the time, and get 5bet maybe 20% of the time. In addition, if there *is* any real icm burden here (whether real or just recs being scared and want to cash) this works in our favor as a 4bettor, not as a caller oop. People just aren't 5bet jamming hands like TT/JJ/AQs here. If we had those reads and it made the 5bet a somewhat likely and super gross spot I like a flat, but as described I think a 4bet is clearly a very nice option here.

Your whole post had me scratching my head. I understand you have to bust in here all condescending to let mfers know you’re the smartest in this Internet forum, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

First you say you have an under represented TPTK and shouldn’t lay it down to a pot sized bet, but later in your post you say you should take the line with the least amount of variance. IMHO the line where you flop such an attractive hand that you just can’t lay down to sets is less attractive than 4 betting pre. Again, a $65-70K 4 bet gets everyone but AA and KK to fold... or you let any pair draw out at 1/7 chance it hits. Your advice was let everyone play for whatever price they want because AK is such a premium hand. Your strategy is essentially hope you out flop them, as opposed to out playing them.

Hi there, thank you for your advice and thought process, and acknowledging so far some of the comments people are making are somewhat negative, not good poker advice especially regarding folding ak tptk after unrepping my hand

I see why you said this is a rare situation to just call pre but i as i crush/dominate all the other ranges and can play/get away from my hand easily and that i kinda did this in the tournament, so keep the pot small, too not risk my tournament life, too play the hand has if i miss can fold etc

But i have many concerns/worries about how i played it and by also your answer not just cause i lost the hand/even if i won it

1) i am playing ak oop which feels weak
2) i am letting other people in cheaply
3) i am not defining my hand in my head
4) the button squeezer could could be squeezing a wide range
5) played the hand as scared to lose as what if squeezer has aakk and to maybe cause i dont want to flip

You agreeing with my play on this ocassion has confused me even more now lol,

As this deep should i not take this spot to 4bet big or 4 bet jam? Considering also the stack to pot ratio, already 54k in middle so i have around 4-1 stack to pot ratio, and to win the tournament a i maybe have risk and maybe gamble here in this spot? And cant play scared or soo cautisly in this spot, i feel a 4 bet fold or jam is better in this spot but cant work out which one, by jamming he can even fold right upto qq in this spot and most likely would fold 99 1010 jj aq all bluffs

I actually have played tournament upto £5000/$6000 but thats without really working on my game and all spots but now am trying to learn and improve, as this spot cost me big time and cant workout the best play

I dont now if i have posted in the wrong forum? As this is my first time posting

If this is actually your opinion you should stop giving advice in this forum and start asking more questions. Calling flop here is a no brainer snap decision and his advice to minimize variance by pot-controlling pre doesn't contradict the idea that we'll play for stacks when we have tptk.

This definitely isn't the case either. People will call us with hands like JJ/QQ/AQs, maybe AQo/AJs/TT. People don't only have AA/KK when they continue vs 4bet, especially if we 4b relatively smallish and they have position. They may only 5bet KK, but not many people are gonna fold QQ IP here.

Hi duncunless, thanks for advice

I agree with you most entirley here with everything you say, it makes the most sense, 4 bet is the better option, in your opnion what would your 4 size be here?

And are you 4betting with the intention of olding or calling off?

And what do you think of the 4 bet jam? This way you pick up the 54k most of the time and dont get into flips either or hard possible post flop situation oop

(Additional note the young chinise guy later in the mtt raised aq off in button or co i forgot, the person on his right good player 3bet ak and chinise guy 4 bet jammed 50bb , but this is different situation of course but showed me he is capable of shoving little wide but i seen the extent of my read on him later of course even though seeing hands before in the day showed he was playing a little off or agressiving or calling light on river to vb)

Im confused

A 4 bet to these players is essentially an all in given the bet and stack sizes. Anyone who commits half their stack preflop is pretty heavily invested in that pot, I would say. If you’re stacking off preflop with JJ, QQ, and AQs in a big tourney, god bless your soul. You should spread the word like gospel.

Keep spreading the good word

If you are so sure how you played it is right, why did you post the hand?


Also, we're still waiting on the ranges you gave to the villain.

Didace your such a negative sad person, if you got nothing constructive and just bugger off please