AJ from but standrad 3bet? - Beginning Poker Questions

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AJ from but standrad 3bet?

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01-18-2018 , 01:33 PM

possixbcn

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 75

6max HMNL.
All the players have around 100bb.

Is AJo a standard 3bet if we are in the button and facing a 3bb raise from UTG (TAG)?
What if we are in the CO? And SB?

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01-18-2018 , 09:46 PM

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

It’s a stardard fold against a positionally aware UTG raiser. It could be a call or a raise under certain circumstances.

The circumstances need to be pretty good for you. Even BU vs. CO AJo is a fold at tough tables.

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01-19-2018 , 01:07 AM

lam3e10

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

a fold w/ AJo on btn vs co? even vs the toughest opponent ,I don't find a folding reason here. Or you may should leave the table if you think you can't play AJo well on BTN.

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01-19-2018 , 05:56 AM

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,633

vs tight reg in the tightest games (which would be nl25-100 zoom), folding is definetly standard, with some 3bets mixed in, just remember that those 3bets are bluffs, so dont go crazy when you hit

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a fold w/ AJo on btn vs co? even vs the toughest opponent ,I don't find a folding reason here. Or you may should leave the table if you think you can't play AJo well on BTN.

its not about how tough your opponent is or how good you are, its about their range - and regs in the zoom stakes I mentioned play suuuuper tight ranges from utg

e: BU vs CO however is a very different story and folding AJ in this spot is simply a mistake

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01-19-2018 , 09:22 AM

SpewingIsMyMove

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 3,529

AS mentioned above, AJ is a dangerous hand and playing it depends greatly on your reads of opponents range. Facing an UTG raise from a tight player, his range is stronger than AJ, and, in many cases, dominates AJ, which puts you in a bad position if an ace hits.

There are also a lot of games (for examples, very loose, passive stages of a MTT donkament) where I will happily three bet AJ from position, as I know that UTG could be opening with a lot of broadway combos and small pockets, and the flat callers could be playing ATC.

Just be careful with it, it is a hand with more potential to stack you than the other player.

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01-19-2018 , 09:27 AM

SpewingIsMyMove

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 3,529

Quote:

Originally Posted by lam3e10

a fold w/ AJo on btn vs co? even vs the toughest opponent ,I don't find a folding reason here. Or you may should leave the table if you think you can't play AJo well on BTN.

So, a tight player opens to 3bb from UTG, you 3b to 8bb, he shoves all in for 20bb....what do you do?

Same situation happens, but you call instead of 3b, the flop is A67r, UTG leads out for 2/3 PSB, what do you do?

Flop is completely dry, 269r, UTG leads out on the flop, you have only AJ, what do you do?

In each case, unless the original raiser is cowed by your three bet, you are playing against a superior range and have to make some very difficult decisions. You are, at this point, either turning AJ into a bluff, or trying to bluff catch with ace high. While this situation is not unplayable, it is very difficult and very avoidable

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01-19-2018 , 11:13 AM

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,633

^ he is talking about co vs btn (I misread it as well), where you can never fold AJo. Also, the whole thread is about 100bb 6max cashgame, not 20bb mtt.

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01-19-2018 , 11:37 AM

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,434

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

Just to be clear, AJo BU vs. UTG is in the bluff part of lots of 3betting ranges. The hand is slightly too weak to call and therefore on the upper end of your folding range, has an ace blocker and doesn’t perform too bad against a pair heavy calling range.

Nobody is talking about stacking off on a A72 flop and I hope nobody thinks that’s a value 3bet in a 100BB 6max cash game against reasonable competition.

FWIW, if it was a tournament and UTG raise/shoved for 20BB, we obviously have a trivial call for > 2.5:1 (including ante). No sane person would 3bet that spot if they thought it wasn’t a snap call against a shove.

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01-19-2018 , 09:07 PM

TheGull

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 178

He has to be the nittiest player imaginable for a button fold with AJ to be 'standard'.

Yes, range advantage, sure. But how fit/fold is this guy? Is he susceptible to floats? Does he fold often to 3b? I am very rarely folding in this situation. He better be something like 12/5 for me to fold...

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01-19-2018 , 09:12 PM

#10

TheGull

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

I get the point of your post- but let's be real. You've just made an argument for playing virtually nothing other than AA. I mean, let's plug in JJ into all of your scenarios. JJ would be even tougher to play in your third scenario than AJ would be. At least with AJ you'd know where you stand.

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