I've played many a hand on snap/zoom and stacked seen weird stuff, People snapping my 4bet shove with AKs with 34s , so without reads other than a few orbits, I don't think we can make reads vs the strength of our hand.

Who folds this, who shoves, who calls ?

888 Poker - $0.10 NL (6 max) FAST - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 237.6 BB (VPIP: 28.85, PFR: 17.31, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 53)
BTN: 116 BB (VPIP: 16.07, PFR: 9.01, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 114)
Hero (SB): 163.5 BB
BB: 76.1 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
UTG: 170.3 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
MP: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, UTG raises to 36 BB, Hero raises to 163.5 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 127.5 BB

Flop: (328 BB, 2 players) 3 4 8

Turn: (328 BB, 2 players) Q

River: (328 BB, 2 players) 7

I usually flat the 4-bet, but you can put in a small 5-bet and call off, or rip it. Villain should have enough combos of AK (or random 4b bluffs) to make all lines profitable.

my thinking alike, just got to get the results orientated thinking out of my head because of the extra hands per hour, just see more coolers quicker.


(I won this hand though) he had JJ

If all lines are profitable, some most be more than other's and as everything in Poker is it depends, lets but lets think of the pro's and con's,

call, give Ax hands a chance to crack us instead of gettnig it in 75% (even if they crack then) JJ/QQ can also get a fright some the A, maybe making us miss some value or getting thin value on T or R , or depending on how much goes in pre, are you just never folding to Villian agression ? (not literally but u get what im asking) but we also keep in all of Villians 4bet bluffs which can defo be +ev but is it the more +ev move 160bb deep, obviously the deeper we get the nicer a call becomes imo

Shove: fold out 4bet bluff's and maybe even JJ+ , but since its micro's we can assume to be called by worse long run. (feels less likely in zoom variants but once again results orienated) also, get snapped by some "big hands" that Tag's cant fold.

Fold : No (without hud)

I dont have a HUD as I play to be clear

If you flat the 4-bet, you can check-fold kings on some Axx boards. Reason being, if you also flat the 4-bet with AQs and some combos of AK (and some other stuff like QQ/JJ, maybe TT), KK will be near the bottom of your range on Axx. i.e. you continue with the best hands in your flop-seeing range, and fold the worst ones. Sometimes KK is near the bottom of your range. (On ATx, for example, TT > AK> AQs> KK > QQ> JJ. Stacking with TT/AK/AQ and folding KK/QQ/JJ would be reasonable imo.)

If you 5-bet small (to 60bb, say) and villain flats for some reason, the pot will be slightly bigger than your stack on the flop, but you can still check-fold on Axx, but go broke (either by betting or check-jamming) on just about every other flop texture. If you 5-bet, make sure you also have some AKs and QQ in your range. If your 5b range is mostly KK+ and some QQ and AKs at some frequency, you'll have something to stack off with on every board.

P.S. FWIW, I think villain made a big mistake by 4betting jacks, let alone calling off. I would be flatting the 3-bet with kings in his spot, let alone jacks. He can 4-bet Aces for value, and balance with a random selection of Axs. Strong pairs make ideal flats in position in that spot, because you're often bluffing when you 3-bet, but won't be continuing vs a 4-bet with much that does horribly vs JJ. Villain is often valuecutting/owning himself by 4-betting jacks in such a spot.

Thanks Arty,

Makes plenty of sense, AKs and QQ+ are defo in the 4bet range v certain types but not always as a default (playing zoom no hud on 888)

Just (rot) that the times we get called OOP its not that comfortable to stack off on Jxx Qxx boards since they are generally made up of the most tightest players in pos, now if they call a 4bet with them I don't know, some do. I also think coming across tighter ranges is skewing my view a little

I'm stacking off pre with KK 99% of the time at 5nlz, don't imagine 10nlz is much different.

The only time I pause to call is after a limp-reraise by someone with terrible stats.

Same at 10NLz, just because of the 60bb extra, and him being UG, and I don't know if me being in the sb, eg had the option to fold to an UG raise but didnt, makes people percieve you as strong

You don't think maybe he thinks you are playing 3bet only in sb? I'm at 5nl and a lot of competent regs seem to only play the small blind by 3betting it, and that seems to be a common sentiment these days. I suppose V could think you do the same and expect you to have a lot of hands he is beating if you 3bet some suited connectors, suited aces and 88-1010 in addition to strong hands.

Yeah, its turned into a 3bet or fold kinda game from most spots, not so sure I like it, love me some postflop play (with room)

I just think that vs UG opens in Zoom/Snap variants, sb raising range is qutie tight, due to the auto fold.