It reduces variance which also reduces the enjoyment i have since i run good when i run it once, i am gambling if i think i can run good on a second river card as well.

Case in point, i would have split these hands if i rit imo

Hand #1

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2060416
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $205.75
SB: $103.05
BB: $35.72
UTG: $99.00
MP: $108.53
CO: $304.51

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with T T
3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, SB raises to $9, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.50

Flop: ($19.00) 3 8 9 (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15

Turn: ($49.00) 5 (2 players)
SB bets $79.05 all in, Hero calls $79.05

River: ($207.10) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $207.10
Hero shows T T (a pair of Tens)
SB shows 7 A (high card Ace)
Hero wins $204.30
(Rake: $2.80)

Hand #2

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2060417
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $101.42
SB: $118.81
BB: $109.37
UTG: $187.86
MP: $43.94
Hero (CO): $196.64

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with A J
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB raises to $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $7

Flop: ($21.00) 9 7 6 (2 players)
SB bets $12, Hero calls $12

Turn: ($45.00) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $28.50, SB raises to $96.81 all in, Hero calls $68.31

River: ($238.62) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $238.62
SB shows 7 5 (a pair of Sevens)
Hero shows A J (a pair of Aces)
Hero wins $235.82
(Rake: $2.80)

Yeah but its less stressful too, and fish don't have it on, so you are just halfing your all in preflop variance vs regs.
Definitely worth it imo, and people pushing draws do not benefit from running twice at all.

Yeah the AJ was against me haha, thats why I posted.

lol i had no idea that was you, i thought you were a 2p2er when you typed in chat my range is capped or whatever.

People can ship OESD or naked FD way more often if they know you run it twice because they're likely going to split but often they will pick up the pot uncontested because you fold so they gain on fold equity

nah you've got it wrong, run it twice doesnt change equity at all, the EV of shipping a draw is the same as running it once.

im on the "will never run it twice" side

I get it if you don't tilt because of aipf variance or if the fish started using it, beside that I can see no downsides to it.



fun day.

Huh? I always thought that you draw the cards and remove them?

For example villain ships OESD on the flop,

the turn & river gets dealt

both cards get removed

turn & river get dealt again?

Is it like this?

If villain didn't hit his equity improved because 2 unbeneficial cards got removed

Nah because the reverse is true for the overpair if you hit your draw on the first run, so it balances.

Running it twice doesn't change your EV, it just reduces/balances variance. I mean if you run AA vs KK with 10000 boards you still are going to win 8000 and lose 2000 ish. I would just run it twice if I'm taking shots, other than that, nah.


btw this session I did mix in some normal tables, and boy, were they so much juicer than zoom tables. guy on one table kept off stacking off with middle pair and reloading to 200bb.

Yes the reverse is true

but doesn't this mean that it's more likely that villain will at least win 50% of the pot?

@ dill

yes it reduces the variance

This on the other hand means that if villain is shipping a worse hand he'll split more often as he gets 1 try more

That's why he can ship a wider range and profit from the fold equity because he'll most often split the pot with you if you run it twice and he ships a draw


Reducing the variance also means that we win less if we win I hope you understand that

example

if villailn ships OESD and has 32% equity on the flop

there are 4 possible outcomes

You win first run you win second run
you win first run you lose second run
you lose first run lose second run
you lose first run you lose second run

Chance for winning both is around 46%
Chance for you losing both is around 10%

That means the chance for him to split is around 44% when he has only 32% equity

Also 10% chance to win it all from you

Obviously you're winning 68000/100000 and he's winning 32000/100000

But it means if you get it in and run it twice he has a 54% chance of profiting from that and only a 46% chance to be at an disatvantage

That means he's getting a 4% edge on you because you run it twice

Correct me if I'm wrong I'm drunk at it's late at night

Can you run it twice in every cash game now or just above 50NL?

only above the .25/.50 limits for (PLO/NL) inclusive afaik

Frosty, villain shovin the draw cuz of running it twice only gets 1 chance at the FE still evenif he plays the draw twice which in the longrun balances out regardless of the result so i dont think his FE is different than jus running it once, its not like his villain is going to fold because they r running it twice

If the same spot comes up twice n villain wants to shove his draw both times but run it only once in each situation, he is now getting 2 separates instances of FE so he actually has more FE overall now not b4 where he ran it twice

Im kind of confusing myself here so im not sure u understand the bull**** im saying lmao

Shot take successful









nice anti-rostucko g

Lol no that's not what I mean

I mean villain will shove OESD more often because he's only losing money ~46% of the time when you ship TP or better against him

If you'd only run it once he's losing 68% of the time
That number doesn't change when he's running it twice just that he'll lose money less often thanks to the reduced variance, and when he wins he's usually only winning 1 of 2 runs reducing his winnings

But that means he's less afraid to ship wide against you because even with low equity he's probably not losing money

That's how he gains fold equity

hmm i think there would be a huge(big?) thread somewhere if you did get an advantage by shoving draws on 2p2 somewhere with RIT. Plus Q6s usually right about this type of **** so ive learnt not to argue with him and just nod and agree

Yes @ Burnss I remember reading the thread on Running It Twice here somewhere

Forgot most of it though guess the quintessence was that it's +EV to not run it twice against ppl who want to run it twice

And that running it twice is reducing variance

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...estion-633089/

cba to go through thread, read first few posts and they said no ev is lost

Stars was proper lagging for me, ended up crashing, reloaded it and then got a BSOD. Urgh, I know when this happens at some point im going to have to re install windows. Need to figure out how to save my database, so much effort.

you got hem2?

that causes a lot of lagging for me for stars if been running for a bit, and its given me BSOD a few times aswell

Yeah, it's slow in general and they bringing out new releases but it doesn't do much.

Iv never had much of a problem with it though but BSOD is real bad if it is the reason why that happened. It uses a **** ton of RAM though.

is rake more on run it twice?

no

http://www.rakeback.com/full-tilt-poker/rake-structure/

unless they changed it????