Hi Dazarath,

Ive been reading your threads on this topic. They are brillliantly thought out and written and have really helped me gain an understanding of different concepts relating to the mathematics and possible scenarios with certain cards against different playing styles.

I just wanted to thank you personally and look forward to reading some more of the stuff you have written in other threads!!

Reagards
Andy

I have no idea what game you lot are playing but my C-Bets are getting called light when I dont have a hand like when I miss with AK/AQ.

I play on PS, 6 max, 5NL and run at 17/9/1.7 over 30k hands

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 44625
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $9.16
UTG: $5.76
Hero (MP): $7.96
CO: $2.24
BTN: $6.68
SB: $2.01

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is MP with K A
UTG calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.57) 7 9 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.50, UTG calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.57) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.45, Hero folds

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 44627
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $11.02
CO: $8.24
BTN: $11.40
Hero (SB): $5.57

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K A
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.21, BB calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.42) 4 7 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.34, BB calls $0.34

Turn: ($1.10) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.70, Hero folds

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 44629
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $9.88
Hero (BTN): $9.93
SB: $6.90
BB: $10.87

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with A K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.26, 1 fold, BB calls $0.21

Flop: ($0.54) J 6 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.45, BB calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.44) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.44) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $1.16, Hero folds

Don't c-bet into multiway pots, and don't c-bet at every pot because you'll become predictable. Change your game up but don't get too fancy. I play some 5NL too and had the same problem. Try not to get into tough situations when it isn't necessary or give away chips to calling stations. Also, 17/9/1.7 is way too tight for 6-max, loosen up in CO and BTN. Lastly, don't try to steal 100% of the time. No one will look down at you if you fold J3o on the button. At least give yourself a chance to make a hand if your steals are getting called or raised.

Does anybody think there is any point in trying out new styles like mentioned in this thread at play money tables??
My reason for asking is ovbiously the players dont have a clue really about anything and i dont want to waste my time trying it out for an x amount of time if there is no way i can judge if it will work for me when i go back to real money tables. Or does it not matter and i should try it out on play money tables because it will work any limit you try out new ideas??

Thanx Andy

My biggest fear at these tables is the calling station thats why I tighten up a lot its a leak I have but yes most of the profit comes from the BTN and CO.

Andy playing play money tables is a waste of time, my adivce to you is to play 2NL on PS I deposited $50 and have played 30k hands and my bank roll is $330. I have over 30mil play chips on FTP. Its a waste of time you want to make money be it small at first.

Great Post this has helped me ALOT!!!

Yeah thats what i thought
Thanx

didn´t read the whole thread, but a lot. very good work op.

my question: i remember you played a lot of nl25 because of a challenge or something. there you openraised with 6 bb often (always)?

please explain this!

if i´m wrong, sorry. if this was discussed before please tell at which side.

I've read and heard the stuff all before, but never really clicked until I read this post. Went from a breakeven 5NL player to a winning 10NL player in 1 week.

Excellent post.

Since reading this thread I'm winning a LOT more at 2NL. Solid advice.

After reading this post, I checked my stats for cash games:

Site 1 29/13
Site 2 29/10

maybe that explains why I am a fish.......

learning, learning. Thanks for the simple eye opener!

I love when I play against CS. Value bet the **** out of them.

I get annoyed at short stacks but I just play cautiously against them

Best comeback ever!!!

OP, what stats am I going to aim for at 25NL/50NL in your opinion?

Just moved up from 25 to 50, lost 3 buyins to a couple of coolers and moving down again ^^

I’m trying to figure out why everyone is hanging on WCRider’s every word like he/she is the master poker GOD. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how to play and if the responses by the OP weren’t so arrogant I wouldn’t even bring this up. Check WCRider’s stats on pokertableratings.com and you will see a cash game graph that looks similar to the most recent stock market crash. The last 120K+ hands looks like a slow downward spiral. I know people are going to throw the term variance around, but when you look at this graph it will hit you that this isn’t due to variance, but someone who just isn’t that great of a player.

I think everyone looks too much into stats. Alex Rodriguez has great stats, but he can’t win a dam thing and is terrible in the clutch. My point is that your stats before any board cards even come out, which is what everyone analyzes, only tells part of the story. There are 5 more cards that can potentially come out, meaning you are analyzing how good someone is after only 2 of the 7 cards are dealt. Poker is as much an art form as it is a science and those that can mix in the art with the science make the best players, not because you got your pre-flop stats to look like all the other clones watching the poker videos.

If there was only one perfect way to play poker there would be no winners.

Thats bullcrap. You got it right, when you have a hand raise it preflop and play it aggressively but smartly afterwards. But like wolfbeo also said, if you have a pretty crappy preflop hand (low suited connectors, Q-4 suited type hands)you can still get to a EV+ by limping in and only winning a few big pots when you catch that flush or straight or trips or 2 pair etc. Also if you are limping in quite often it makes hiding the moster easier because the others at the table see you in every hand and think you play crap alot. At 2NL there is a ton of limping in. If you can play better than everyone else when you have a hand worth playing with a preflop raise and ALSO play better than 4-5 limpers post-flop then I don't see how you can say that is wrong to do. You have a winning way and think that is the only way to play, I get it, but it isn't the only way to win hands. I find it amusing that alot of people on these forums are trying to cookie cutter every poker player. You are missing the point completely though. If you are the best player at the table, limping in vs folding should lead to a EV+ especially at a table where there is alot of limping in. Just because you make a good argument that you shouldn't limp in with a strong hand doesn't mean you are correct to say that you should just about never limp in.

I think it's about as close to correct as you can get to avoid open limping.

Also 2NL is not poker.

why isnt it?

ive explained it in this thread a ton of times so im not going to again, but this is obviously wrong for the reasons described before.

The dude you quoted has 7 posts and his name references the greatest C Thomas Howell movie ever, so I think I'm going to trust him over you.

This is just really bad advice. You can and should call with a decent amount of hands in position. Especially if you think you have an edge over your opponent.

Examples: I'm certainly not folding 9Ts on the button to an UTG raise from a regular just because my implied odds are great. Against a raise from a loose player I'd like to call with broadways and generally hands with high card value. There are just so many examples where calling IP is good. A regular opening in the CO would be another great spot to call with a fairly wide range (depending on the blinds) because you can expect to have lots of fold equity postflop.

On the other hand calling with a PP is not always good. Often it's better to 3bet or fold them.

OP's advice is certainly good for absolute beginners and enough too beat the penny games but

a) its just so exploitable. Playing against these ABC fit or fold (whatever you may call it) regs is great.
b) you're missing lots of good spots to make money