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When is a hand mucked? When is a hand mucked?

08-25-2024 , 02:42 AM
I'm dealing tonight, and there are 4 to a flush on board. Player A bets, Player B calls. Player A show a set. Player B throws his hand in face down. I'm reaching to muck the hand, and Player B grabs them quickly and turns them over to show a flush. Floor is called, and rules that Player B's hand is still live.


What is the correct call on this? I would have made the hand dead. Face down, thrown forward, crosses the betting line. I of course had to go with the floor decision, but I just want to know the correct call.
When is a hand mucked? Quote
08-25-2024 , 09:02 AM
A had is mucked when it is in the muck and not identifiable. Floor is correct.
When is a hand mucked? Quote
08-26-2024 , 11:14 AM
I think (and correct me if I’m wrong) that you want to kill the hand because you think the player folded. However, in the instance you described he did not fold. That is because he is not facing a bet. If player A had bet, then player B throws his cards face down with a forward motion, you would be correct. Player B would not be entitled to grab his cards and call the bet. Since this was at showdown though, player B was not facing a bet. Therefore he cannot fold, but only discard his hand. Before the hand is mucked, which can only be done by the dealer, he can reclaim his cards and table his hand.

I think the confusion comes from using the terms “muck”, “fold”, and “discard” interchangeably. They are not actually interchangeable. Fold means to give up a claim to a pot by failing to call a bet. Discard means to release your cards with a forward motion, usually face down, indicating intent to not show them. A player can fold or discard, and folding is usually accomplished by discarding when facing action. Muck means to mix discarded cards with the muck so as to make them unidentifiable - only the dealer should be doing this.

At showdown, you can’t fold - there is no action. You can discard, as player B did. Folding kills your hand immediately, but discarding does not. Only after the hand is mucked will it be dead.
When is a hand mucked? Quote
08-27-2024 , 06:01 AM
^ I have said this same like if thing over and over since I joined, but most people don't want to think hard enough to understand the differences and use the proper language.

Anyway though, in most cardrooms if the cards are identifiable, they are live. But some rooms have very different rules. Many used to have "magic muck" which made the hand dead if it touched any other dead cards. I believe fewer places do this now. But the room I mostly now play at is even more strict - if you release your cards face down and the dealer has touched them they are dead.
And I believe there are some places where just tossing your hand forward will kill it, just as if you had been facing a bet.
When is a hand mucked? Quote
09-18-2024 , 01:54 PM
At Showdown .. identifiable/retrievable holdings are still eligible to collect the pot AS LONG AS the Player is the one to initiate the return and table them. It gets very sticky should another Player get involved with cards at Showdown .. OPTAH rules apply both physically and verbally. Physical interference may kill the hand whereas verbal interference would typically just get a warning. GL
When is a hand mucked? Quote
09-18-2024 , 05:45 PM
I once was in a head up pot that was all in after the flop. I had turned my hand up after the flop. When the river was dealt, my opponent tossed his hand, it went partially into the muck.

The player sitting next to him reached into the muck, pulled the cards back out, then tabled them, saying that player won.

The dealer immediately pushed the pot to the other guy. I called the floor to protest. Amazingly, the floor ruled that he kept the pot.

That's the only time I feel like I was actually cheated in a casino.
When is a hand mucked? Quote

      
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