Obviously AA and KK are the top 2 hands. But when you talk about calling all ins or just reshoving, im somewhat confused at what the top 10 hands are.
This is what i thought i was


1. AA
2. KK
3. QQ
4. AKs
5. AKo
6. JJ
7. AQs
8. 1010
9. AQo
10. 99



Would these be the top 10 hands to call all ins with? The thing is i saw this list somewhere where it was like this. But then when i go through top 10 cash game hands... you see hands like AQs ranked higher than AKo... which makes no sense. Then i seen some articles where they have the top 10 hands in holdem... they actually have KJs as a top 10 hand. Whats confusing is Phil Hellmuth mentions the top 10 hands in holdem are AA, KK, QQ, AKs, JJ, 10s, 9s, 8s, AQs, 7s. Im confused at this b/c why would he not have AKo ranked as a top 10 hand and have AQs there?


Are these top 10 hand rankings different for sng, tournamnet and cash game which is why its like this? If so, is there a list that shows what the top starting hands are for tournaments, cash games and calling all ins for sng/tournaments?

For example when i go on pokerlistings, it shows the top 10 hands as


AA
KK
QQ
AK (suited)
JJ
1010
AQ (suited)
AJ (suited)
AK (off suit)
KQ (suited)



I had a book called no limit holdem theory and practice and there was something at the end of the book where it showed the top hands with certain percentage such as aa, kk, and it goes from best hand to worst hand. I wanted to know if there is an exact chart for calling all ins. Such as calling an all in with JJ is better than AKo or whatnot. Because the way im reading some things, some charts have AQs ranked higher than AKo which makes no sense b/c if someone shoves, obviously you rather have AKo then AQs.


Another thing i wanted to know is, is having QQ always better than AKs when someone shoves? QQ is great bc if they have a pair, most likely its smaller than your qq so you going to be 4 to 1 favorite. If they have ak, you are 56-44 favorite but its close to a flip. But if they have like A10, you are 70/30 favorite. If you have AKs, the only hand where you are in absolute terrible shape is AA. Even if they have KK... you have 30 percent equity. But if they have a pair... then you are flipping. If they have Ax... you are going to be a 3 to 1 favorite.


I always considered AKs to be the 3rd best hand but apparently im wrong in this and its queens? Thing is when you get it all in with queens... most of the time it seems like you are up again aa or kk or the most obvious hand which is AK. Then those other times they have jj or 1010 where you dominate them.

It depends what you mean by "best hands". If you are talking about preflop equity, then suited connectors are of course pretty bad.

But there is a postflop play too. That's where hands such as suited connectors/gappers and Axs can perform well as they have strong implied odds. If you miss, you won't lose a big pot, but if you hit you can win huge pots.

It really depends whether you are talking about all-in equity or return on investment.

You will face AA and KK more often when going AIPF with QQ than when you have AK. That's because with AK you have both an A and a K "blocker": there are only 3 left in the deck, thus it is less likely that someone has them.

So are you saying AKs is better than QQ?


By the top 10 hands... i mean the top 10 hands to call an all in. Which would that be? All in equity or return on investment? Such as okay i can call with JJ there but i cant call with AQ etc. Also another thing but is AKo better or worst than JJ for calling an all in?

Okay i think suited connectors you mean for roi right? I mean strictly for calling all ins. So there are two types of best hands... all in equity and roi? Is there another type?


I always thought it was


AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, AKo, AQs, 1010, AQo, 99. Or is AKo ranked higher than JJ? Or shoudl AKs be grouped with AKo? Is AQs really better than 1010 or 99? Why is 1010 better than AQo. Just really confused at this.

Yes, suited connectors only have a good ROI. I think this explains Hellmuth's top hands.

AKo "loses" to any pocket pair, so it "loses" to JJ but it's actually close to a flip (like against QQ).

And I don't think there is a perfectly relevant way of classifying hands as the mathematical relation of preflop superiority is not transitive. What I mean is that AQs beats 22 (very slightly), 22 beats AKo (very slightly again) and AKo beats AQs.
If you have done some maths you understand that preflop equity is not an order relation, and thus it is not enough to classify hand strength.

Usually, when you assess someone's preflop range, you will look at Sklansky and Malmuth's classification. You can download the free program pokerstove and select a top % of hands. However, I don't know exactly how they did this classification but it does not only take pf equity into account.

I think there is an alternative classification to Sklansky's one which compares each hand to every other hand (you have it pokertracker I think). In this case we have an order relation but once again not very relevant as people don't go all in with 92o.

EDIT: Another thing that makes a clear hand strength classification hard to define: how many people are involved in the hand ?

You don't call an all-in only by looking at your hand strength. You have to look at the whole preflop action, your SPR, and the ICM if you are playing in a tournament.

Thus, I'm not saying AKs is better than QQ. If I have 10bb then I'm often happier to shove with QQ than AKs because I'm more likely to get called by a hand I crush. A big strength of AKs is that you can put a lot of pressure preflop on the others preflop because you will often have at least a flip.

If you think your opponent is going allin with a hand worse than the top 10 then yeah you can call with all of those. Thing is do you really think people are shipping pocket nine's and tens preflop?

I've seen plenty of people ship stuff like K8o preflop, to be fair.

OP - Seriously, what difference does it make ?

Can you tell me how your play will be different if you got a hand that was #10 on your current list and you suddenly found out it was #11 ?

When calling an all in ,it depends on the M of you and your opponents and the size of the pot pre flop.

Jamming K8o on the button or small blind for 10 bb is mandatory for me.

There is no absolute ranking, it's situational. That's why you can find 10 different systems on the Internet for ranking poker hands.

You mention calling an all-in, but that isn't even specific enough to answer the question. Calling against what hand or what range? How many opponents yet to play? How loose/tight is the table? Tournament or cash? Etc etc.

I mean calling all ins in a sit and go or tournament. Table is full of regulars.

Because the stack sizes from tournaments and cash games vary alot, it's very situational.
In a turbo tournament, where you have 78s in MP with 25BB it's and easy fold, because you'll never have the best hand and you have far to little implied odds with such small stack sizes.

Meanwhile in a cash game where you are 200BB+ it might be probitable to open raise - and even call a 3-bet (preferably in position), because of the strong implied odds.

So in cash games, a hand that more easily makes the nuts is often higher ranked then a hand that might have the hand crushed. For example AKo vs AQs. With AKo you most often win small pots, and lose big pots. But with AQs you can win big pots.

Sorry for bad english :P

I heard that AA was pretty good. Hope I helped.

Yes. Play .01/.02 and $0.50 tourneys and you'll see lots of it.

OP - You talk about going all in because you have good pocket cards. You can do that - and you can still lose. I had AK, flopped a trio. I raised, other guy just went all in. I put him on the other K, possibly a chop so I called.

He shows QQ and starts crying about the total bull**** blah blah. All I said was, "I"m sorry you didn't realize QQ could lose."

If you go all in just because you have good pocket cards, you'll steal a lot of blinds and limped bets, feel like you're doing really well, and then you'll lose a big pot cause someone else was paying attention to you while you were just paying attention to your cards.

I'm quite surprised that nobody has yet told you to stop reading Play Poker Like the Pros, it is not a good book.

So let me give you an example of why how far away you are from money is so important in tourneys:

I flopped AA in a $100 + $10 buyin deep stack tourney and was few out of money (Maybe 10?) ... There were so many add-ons and rebuys that even bottom cash was double up or close enough ... It was a big tourney.

Slugged for hours to get enough chips to at least cash and hopefully double up and more lol ... Top prize was thousands ... Was in comfortable position to at least min cash or more just by folding till money.

So I have these beautiful Aces in early pos (just after BB) ... so do I shove ... no, I raise enough for everyone to fold except ... except for BB who shoves for more than 80% of my stack. So how is my thinking: he cannot have a better hand, I have position on BB that now doesn't matter ... If I have 100% or more chips (BB stack + SB + ante) I'm sailing into maybe close to Final Table and real money. If I fold I have plenty to cash and possibly more.

Now, if I call and lose, I have about 20% left which is not much 10 out of money (cause that can take a long time) but maybe sufficient ...

What do stats and best hand ranking say? (Most those rankings are only for mild reference and garbage otherwise ... semi decent starting point but ... ) Call fool lol ...

But, I'm thinking, what I need to be sure is more info ... What is this guy in BB likely to shove with? Tight player, even better, cause I'm most likely against AK, KK, QQ and rarely JJ ... he is tight so I dominate I think (BTW 65 suited in different suit than the Aces is the best hand vs AA with 23.1% w/t chance).

So he is tight, stats say call, equity says call, having some chips behind says call, expected value and future expected value all day call. Hand strength table especially says: CALL!!!!!! Call now it says lol ....

ALL WRONG!!!!!!!

I of course call ... he shows KT suited ... One to the his suit cards flops so he has runner runner flush possibly but I hold one of the aces to the suit so his outs to runner runner flush drop to 8. I'm happy I think I'm good ... turn is not his suit so inconsequential I think, so even more happy so the river comes: the bane of my existence that river: by now 10 or so of my Aces lost on the river ... impossible for it to be 11 in a row right? WRONG!!!!

River comes and I loose ... I'm thinking how is this even possible on a board textured like this? He didn't have two pair what the heck ... This is a ridiculous mistake call support, right. Wrong again ...

The guy spikes the only possible river card to give him the win with an inside str to the ten ... and he did runner runner it ...

My remaining stack is enough I think but I'm crippled. One before the money I'm on fumes and effectively all in with AQ and a flopped straight. Do I cash?

NO!!! The guy that puts me allin with what I think is a nut straight shows 74 unsuited (at that) and runner runners a flush and me out of tourney and 1 out of money!

I bubble and the field quickly, in minutes really after hours of slug fest, goes through many blind levels. This means that I, without the mistake like calling with those aces, would have laddered up to real money ...

So all the indicators say call with AA and stats overtime say call as far as expected future earnings is concerned but in my case they were all wrong! Fold was correct! Because tournament poker is a much deeper intellectual game than just statistics or gameplay indicators. When money gets big, folding aces is sometimes surprisingly correct play ...

I would have had no problem making it into money with the stack I had before the Aces call. It was big enough to really do some damage. But the 20% stack, maybe 10xBB, was only good enough for fold or shove.

This decision cost me $110 and possibly 30k or so top prize, but definitely a grand, considering how far I would have gotten just by sitting out and folding.

Loses like that add up if you play enough and can be a difference between being a winning or a losing player! Winning top prize 🏆🏆🏆 dosen't mean crap if you never cash because of chasing it! The money is how we keep the score in this sport ...

May all your cards be live and your pots be Monster!
(Hope this post wasn't too long)

Sorry, didn't realize this post thread is more than 10 years old. Anyways, hope that my post doesn't sound or read as if I was a Poker idiot ... Maybe it will help someone with right decision close to the bubble.

After all, in Hold'em Poker pocket rockets (AAs) are just two cards and can lose to any other two cards, even loosely goosy 72o.

May all your cards be live and your posts be Monster!

Sorry, didn't realize this post thread is more than 10 years old. Anyways, hope that my post doesn't sound or read as if I was a Poker idiot ... Maybe it will help someone with right decision close to the bubble.

After all, in Hold'em Poker pocket rockets (AAs) are just two cards and can lose to any other two cards, even loosely goosy 72o.

May all your cards be live and your posts be Monster!

Tom

You are wrong. You are simply being results oriented. Calling an all in pre flop in a normal tournament is never incorrect. Yes you can lose, as you found out. So what? Poker is about taking risks when the reward is appropriate for the risk. Your spot isnÂ’t even close to being a correct fold. Sure, maybe had you folded you might have mincashed but agains so what? The real money in a tournament comes from running deep. You wonÂ’t run deep very often by folding when you have a good opportunity to chip up.

Calling when you had AA certainly increased your $EV in that tournament. Folding would not have. IÂ’m sorry it didnÂ’t work out in this instance, but that is the way it goes sometimes. Luck is a part of poker, especially tournament poker. Playing like a nit because you are afraid you might get unlucky is not a recipe for success.

Now in fairness, there is a case where you would be correct in your assessment. If you are in a satellite tournament where everyone who cashes gets a seat in the main, then there are spots where folding AA PF can indeed be correct. For example, 6-handed, 5 seats paid, you have 2nd biggest stack. Two stacks less than 5BB. Chip leader shoves; you have AA. You should fold in that case. The chips you potentially gain are practically worthless - you have a very good chance of winning the seat without them.

How did you accidentally reply to a thread that was more than 10 years old?

I am genuinely curious, I am wondering if there are other ways to read this site than what I am doing.

He wants to unlock the direct message feature and is looking for content to add.

Getting back to the original question of top 10 hands, I calculated the average ranking from 6 sources (e.g., Equilab, ProPoker Tools) and found the following:



As to be expected the lower the ranking, the higher the standard deviation -- that is, the more variance among the ranking systems