I read somewhere that even some of the top poker pros from years back are struggling to profit online now, where they used to crush. Is this true? Is the player pool so saturated that even the best player's may struggle to win long term?

Also, do any of you feel you have a great edge and can consistently win over the long term? At what stakes?

Apparently everyone on this board is, but if you venture outside of it, I don't know anyone.

I was a Leaderboard player for Heads Up SNGS from 2008–2011, as well as a consistently-winning player in just about every form of SNGs and NLHE. I've grinded Bovada for the past few years, eeking out a few thousand in 2013 and 2014, but beginning in 2015, the games seemed to go from tough to unbeatable.

I considered other sites, but given that players here seem to regard Bovada as the "softest," it seems like a waste of time. I've now been consistently breaking even at the .50–1 NL Zone Poker for months. Somehow a game with a $100 max buy-in has become five times harder than the $5–10 and $10–20 NL games I used to play before Black Friday.

I'm not sure if there is cheating, collusion, bots, or just that nearly every other player still grinding online poker has a solid understanding of NLHE, but everyone I personally know also finds online poker to be virtually unbeatable, or at best, beatable for very small sums of money.

I still hear people boast about beating sites, especially Bovada, but I'd love to see some charts from consistent winners proving it. I don't see how overcoming the rake is possible against such competition.

nowadays people with good hud and old school grinders crash online poker

Define "crush", define "consistent", and the list of winners might be as long as some people's downswings. Obviously 10NL games in 2016 are a lot tougher than 100NL games in 2006, but there are a couple of people playing 500NLz (one of the toughest games online today) that are beating it for close to 10bb/100. On softer sites and sub-100NL stakes, there are plenty of people with double-digit winrates.
See Brokenstars' PG&C thread.

Isn't competition on Bovada a joke? I know a guy who's beating it for 8bb/100.

Prob a bunch of ppl on bodega beating the games for high wr, thats also possible on other sites depending how hard you're gonna work on your game

Bovada has to be way easier than Winning Poker Network. (Irony in the "winning")

Bovada's about to get a bit harder in about a month once the sports bettors are fenced off from the poker players. How much harder remains to be seen.

Sent from my LGLS665 using Tapatalk

a girl i know is up since starting about 7 years ago. You can view her results for yourself. Cityofechoes is her username. Another dude i play live games with is also up. Sillybilly75

Good luck to you guys who play online these days, you're earning your money.

I refuse to play online anymore until quality regulated sites return legally to the US, and more importantly for me, they remove the ability of HUD's and all the other tracking systems out there that geek the game into oblivion.

Poker should be a people game, not a technology play, IMO.

You guys that are into it, have fun with these ultra sophisticated, small edge, grinding to a decimal point of a decision games...its just not for me, I'll just play less but live...and I'd guess the majority of players out there have much the same opinion and why the games have become "tougher"...because players like me have moved on and can't be taken advantage of if they are not there.

There are still plenty of bad players around... just not as much.

yes there are

I might be joining you soon because I agree with this 100%. I have the ability to play with HUD but I never do...I don't want it to be a crutch. It would be great to play against real people on a regulated site using their real brains instead gathered statistics and bots. I'm giving online a shot right now, but I feel like I'm swimming upstream already.

ugh, don't want to turn this into another HUD thread, but because poker is literally just maths and nothing else, HUDs add an element of skill into the game. The problem is that not everyone has one, and I think sites should implement free HUDs, but allow them to be made as complex as possible short of things which make interpretation easier (read: inbuilt graphs, scatter charts etc).

'Consistently crushing' is tough to define. Pretty much nobody wins at double digits bb/100 any more above like 5NL (there are a couple on Bovada which come close, because 100NL on Bovada plays pretty much like 25NL on any other site). However, 'crushing' is relative, and there are still some (the best of the best in their games) who make about 5bb/100.

Especially previous play money players are raking it in a 100NL+.

lmfao

Stumbled across this...seems to be relevant to this thread and the guy is "out there", so i don't think I'm stepping on any toes. Anyone know who "Donald" is. Looks like he is playing 500nl?? That's a hell of a HUD!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37135648


I don't know if I agree with this "online game will die out stuff". I've always thought the biggest threat to online gambling (of any kind) is government interference.

You do realise HUDs were responsible for finding cheaters and hackers scamming the online poker world out of millions? Ban them and face people who can see your cards again I'll stick to playing against people with HUDs thanks...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm wondering if there are still people that have a misconception about what a HUD is and what it does. It doesn't collect any data that a player couldn't collect himself (in theory), whether with pen and paper, abacus, or stone tablet and chisel. The player still has to be able to interpret the data correctly, or it won't help him make good decisions. If you use a HUD incorrectly, chances are you'd be better off not using one at all.

Just to add to my earlier comment, I do use a HUD as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah that's d7 I think (not even going to try spelling the rest of his 2p2).

He posted in the thread about it in NVG.

Pretty clear he is for real then. Interesting when he spoke of his "working hours". Solid fact then...

...online pro = no social life (because of fish playing times)

Been saying that like forever, but since I'm a long time micro donk I have zero cred

So there you go op...yes it can be still crushed (at the moment) but only at the expense of having any sort of life.

So glad I'm a rec forever.



edit...just read the thread. 2+2 is funny.

That video is very good, he says "I would not recommend starting out to anyone now", is this for just online or live as well.

Well I'm only a nano stakes player but have played on and off for the last 10 years and as a comparison I dare say nl2 now is what nl10/nl25 was in 2007. Yes, by nl2 I mean 1cent2cent.

The players who have been playing for years should have been able to make the adaption, it is the new players just starting out that I feel sorry for.

However everyone seems to forget that there is actually other variations of poker out there. Just go and learn the very basics of plo8 and the go observe a table you will be surprised how terrible people are playing.