Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Is this a terrible fold? Is this a terrible fold?

05-16-2020 , 04:58 AM
Hi all, this is my first post - if I'm getting the format of these posts wrong, let me know.

I have known how to play poker for many years, but never taken it seriously and was a once-a-year recreational player until lockdown.

I'm trying to give poker a serious go as I have much more time and really enjoy the game.

I think I'm at a level of 'conscious incompetence' and would like to become 'consciously competent' as soon as possible!

With that in mind, I've described a hand below hoping to make it easier than reading the detailed hand history but I've put the hand history below too.

This is 5NL Zoom hand.

UTG raises pre-flop, SB call and I call with KQo in the BB.

Flop comes Qd Kh 3d.

SB and I check to the pre flop raiser c-bets just over half the pot.

SB check-raises 3x.

I call.

Pre flop raiser goes all in.

SB calls all in.

I fold.

Pre flop raiser had same hand as me KQo and SB had J10o straight draw.

I assumed pre flop raiser had AA (or maybe hand which I had blockers for like AK) however the check raise from the SB made me think they had a set...probably made the error of specifically putting him on 3s rather than a range.

In hindsight, I could have put the pre-flop UTG's range much wider as he is playing under the full buy-in for 5NL, however probably wouldn't have put him on the same hand as me and I would have called/raised if this was heads up.

The SB range was very wide and could have been trying their luck with a flush draw - didn't think about this at the time and not sure how or if this would affect my decision if it was part of my thinking at the time.

Overall I'm thinking this is a call from an EV perspective? Some recent beats prob pushed me to fold as I felt I haven't been folding enough.

Please let me know where I went wrong and whether I'm thinking about the right kind of things.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seat 1: AleksMosin79 ($5 in chips)
Seat 2: tis120646 ($5.16 in chips)
Seat 3: SNDBXMD ($5.07 in chips)
Seat 4: kevinzzz ($4.33 in chips)
Seat 5: fedorov r ($11.89 in chips)
Seat 6: w995w ($5.45 in chips)
tis120646: posts small blind $0.02
SNDBXMD: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SNDBXMD [Qh Kc]
kevinzzz: raises $0.10 to $0.15
fedorov r: folds
w995w: folds
AleksMosin79: folds
tis120646: calls $0.13
SNDBXMD: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [Qd Kh 3d]
tis120646: checks
SNDBXMD: checks
kevinzzz: bets $0.25
tis120646: raises $0.51 to $0.76
SNDBXMD: calls $0.76
kevinzzz: raises $3.42 to $4.18 and is all-in
tis120646: calls $3.42
SNDBXMD: folds
*** TURN *** [Qd Kh 3d] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [Qd Kh 3d 2d] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tis120646: shows [Th Jd] (high card King)
kevinzzz: shows [Qc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
kevinzzz collected $9.17 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.57 | Rake $0.40
Board [Qd Kh 3d 2d 6h]
Seat 1: AleksMosin79 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: tis120646 (small blind) showed [Th Jd] and lost with high card King
Seat 3: SNDBXMD (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: kevinzzz showed [Qc Ks] and won ($9.17) with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 5: fedorov r folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: w995w folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Is this a terrible fold? Quote
05-16-2020 , 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNDBXMD
With that in mind, I've described a hand below hoping to make it easier than reading the detailed hand history
It doesn't

Don't post results

Think it's fine to just jam the flop when it comes back to us, we're blocking a huge part of the UTG range that beats us so we're only really worried about SB messing about with 33
Is this a terrible fold? Quote
05-16-2020 , 07:27 AM
It's a call / stack off.

First, if we look at opponents ranges and what beats us, we have to question if UTG even raises 33 preflop and if SB calls 33/KK/QQ or folds/3bets those hands. And we obviously block KK/QQ. That makes the nutted parts of their ranges even smaller, especially given the fact that the board provides the most common OESD (JT) and almost the full range of FDs with only the Q (and 3) on there.

Second, we actually get a pretty decent price and need less than 30% equity to stack-off. With 33 as the most likely hand to beat us, we're actually happy to be 3way because the third player most likely has a draw. Unless that draw is also blocking a K or Q, this one of the very rare situations where an additional player actually increases our overall equity in the pot. Sound counterintuitive, but because we have to hit anyway to beat 33 and in that case win the pot even if the draw hits too, our equity goes up thanks to the removal of two cards that doesn't help us. We still have a 4 outer, but now it's 4 out of 43 cards instead of 4 out of 45 cards.

If we have K8 on Kd8c3h the situation might look differently, but with our "mother of all draws" board, we should never fold top two for 100BB unless we have a crazy strong read.
Is this a terrible fold? Quote
05-16-2020 , 02:43 PM
I'd be slightly concerned that SB has 33, but I'm stacking off top two by default in that spot. I'm 3-betting over SB's check-raise, so that UTG doesn't have odds to call if he has something like JTs or AK/AA. If SB happens to have bottom set, you've got outs. (And if UTG wakes up with KK or QQ, that's just bad luck, as you block those hands so much).

I'd only fold top two in spots like this where it's possible someone flopped a straight (like on KQ9). When you block everything except bottom set, you should usually go with the hand, as villain often has a draw or a worse made hand than yours.
Is this a terrible fold? Quote

      
m