*** The 'Should I Be A Pro Poker Player Thread' ***
04-18-2013
, 12:09 PM
It is totally fine to be a beginner. It is OK to start out, be new at something, and want to get better. The amazing part is to go from that to snap "quitting my job and going pro". Over in Small Stakes I think most people wanting to play full time don't get it. Those people have a few hundred hours of winning under their belts. This is just ridiculous. 
Go dig up Mikes007's well. He's really good at poker, imo. If you aren't in that league, don't consider it.
Go dig up Mikes007's well. He's really good at poker, imo. If you aren't in that league, don't consider it.
04-18-2013
, 01:32 PM
Quote:
It is totally fine to be a beginner. It is OK to start out, be new at something, and want to get better. The amazing part is to go from that to snap "quitting my job and going pro". Over in Small Stakes I think most people wanting to play full time don't get it. Those people have a few hundred hours of winning under their belts. This is just ridiculous. Go dig up Mikes007's well. He's really good at poker, imo. If you aren't in that league, don't consider it.
Go dig up Mikes007's well. He's really good at poker, imo. If you aren't in that league, don't consider it.
04-18-2013
, 04:57 PM
04-19-2013
, 03:42 AM
04-19-2013
, 09:51 AM
There are other considerations that might make you go pro sooner. You might be so socially maladjusted that you can't actually hold down a day job. You might have a rich wife or trust fund that makes BR considerations lolcakes. There must be others... maybe you can make >> 2x as much playing small stakes as any other job available to you, and you enjoy poker more than that job. In the last case, you should also have a path to the mid-stakes in the not-distant future.
04-19-2013
, 12:19 PM
There are actually a few long-term pros who post here in BQ. Despite luckboxing OK results in mid-stakes games, that doesn't include me, btw.
If someone showed me a nice graph at NL100, NL200, and NL400, but posted here, I might say different things. Strangely, that doesn't seem to happen.
Quote:
remove the idea of becoming a pro to new posters
04-19-2013
, 12:50 PM
Advice from a Digest Article wrote here a while ago, and this has some weight:
While most of us reading this aren't Professional Poker Players, we are aware of the time, effort, and financing it takes to get there, but nothing screams legitimacy than hearing these things from the horse mouth.
I'm lucky enough to have several known poker players as "friends" on social media sites (sick brag I know), and I thought, "Why not just ask?" So I did, this article is going to be the sum of the gems of wisdom I was given by these players.
The first response was from Neil Channing, internationally renowned player, and a key player in bringing on new talent in the UK.
"In reply to "should I turn pro?"...
I wouldn't totally recommend it. Around 15% of poker players won money in 2011. Out of those probably about half of them didn't win in 2010 and won't win in 2012.
Now if we look at the ones of those eight percent who won more than £15k, we may be left with 3%. That means you can be in the top 10% in the country and maybe the top 5% for something and not make the average wage.
If you're dedicated though and you work and apply yourself it is possible though.
Internet poker makes it very easy to be your own boss and pick your own hours and live poker makes it possible to travel the world visiting nice places and possibly winning lots of money. It's pretty exciting.
If you want to do it I would urge you to always be working on your game, get coaching, watch training videos, discuss hands, read strategy and really think about the game.
I then normally go on to say that if you want to do it anyway, you should realise how lucky you are. For players starting today there are just so many more aids. There are sites like my own, Black Belt Poker, where you can hang out and chat about hands, meet up with other players, talk strategy and learn from each other. Other great sites like Pocket 5s and 2+2 can teach you so much.
Training sites like Bluefire Poker, Poker X Factor, Cardrunners and Deuces Cracked are all excellent and it's mad to not benefit from them.
There are so many more articles in more magazines, and lots of really high quality books around. You should just always be reading and absorbing.
Basically it is all a ton of hard work.
Like the man said:
"It's a tough way to make an easy living."
This got the conversation moving, and next to input was Nick Abou Risk, double UKIPT winner, and a former Poker Software Developer.
"I think Neil gave a pretty good response. I think guys should be consistently making more from poker part-time than in their full-time job and have several years (5-10) worth of living expenses saved up (instead of the old suggestion of 6 months...) before going pro. I think Neil gave a pretty good response. I think guys should be consistently making more from poker part-time than in their full-time job and have several years (5-10) worth of living expenses saved up (instead of the old suggestion of 6 months...) before going pro.
I did call out Nick for being overly nitty, and Max Silver (2 WSOPE Final Tables in 2011 and 16th in 2012's main event) certainly agreed with that assessment with some light hearted banter.
What everyone agreed on was the need to have a solid Bankroll Management Structure in place, and to err on the side of caution, ensuring that you have your expenses covered.
Andrew Ferguson (a very decent online tournament grinder) chipped in at this point commenting that with all the changes to Online Poker since Black Friday, people were still working out what is and isn't sustainable in the new poker environment, especially for those in the US with such limited access to action. But it's also a real issue for Euro players, with the French, Spanish, Italian player pools being segregated away from the general poker field.
Nick also pointed out that without a high degree of self motivation, and the will to put in the same amount of time as a "regular" full time job, both on and off the table, a new pro was very unlikely to improve, and be able to sustain a profitable record. He also added "If you aren't putting in much time, might as well do it part-time while working IMO."
With these guys really knowing what they're talking about, I'm more than happy to let their words speak to this subject, but I'll do my best to add in the TLDR version:
1. Most poker players do not make a profit, and those that do make less than a "regular" job
2. Self-motivation is paramount, if you aren't willing to put in the work and time, it's not going to work out.
3. Use the resources available, with coaching sites and forums there to offer advice and training, you'd be a fool not to use them.
4. A proper BRM is massively important, as is ensuring you have all your bills covered for a significant period of time.
5. In this volatile period in Professional Poker, no-one really know what is a sustainable win rate, or hourly earning. We will only know this in time.
If you are still interested in turning pro after reading this, you will most likely have a lot to get ready. Take it slow, and if you aren't earning more at poker than you are at your day job, keep practising, training and getting better, and if you are destined to be the next Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan, you will see it in your results. Get ready to take the dive into the deep end, and prepare for the worst, make sure you will have a roof over your head, and food in your belly even if you end up on the sickest of downswings.
If you've found this advice helpful, I've done my job, and given back to this community. If you feel you want to gve back to me, any donations to the drinks bill I've run up getting these guys together will be gratefully accepted!
While most of us reading this aren't Professional Poker Players, we are aware of the time, effort, and financing it takes to get there, but nothing screams legitimacy than hearing these things from the horse mouth.
I'm lucky enough to have several known poker players as "friends" on social media sites (sick brag I know), and I thought, "Why not just ask?" So I did, this article is going to be the sum of the gems of wisdom I was given by these players.
The first response was from Neil Channing, internationally renowned player, and a key player in bringing on new talent in the UK.
"In reply to "should I turn pro?"...
I wouldn't totally recommend it. Around 15% of poker players won money in 2011. Out of those probably about half of them didn't win in 2010 and won't win in 2012.
Now if we look at the ones of those eight percent who won more than £15k, we may be left with 3%. That means you can be in the top 10% in the country and maybe the top 5% for something and not make the average wage.
If you're dedicated though and you work and apply yourself it is possible though.
Internet poker makes it very easy to be your own boss and pick your own hours and live poker makes it possible to travel the world visiting nice places and possibly winning lots of money. It's pretty exciting.
If you want to do it I would urge you to always be working on your game, get coaching, watch training videos, discuss hands, read strategy and really think about the game.
I then normally go on to say that if you want to do it anyway, you should realise how lucky you are. For players starting today there are just so many more aids. There are sites like my own, Black Belt Poker, where you can hang out and chat about hands, meet up with other players, talk strategy and learn from each other. Other great sites like Pocket 5s and 2+2 can teach you so much.
Training sites like Bluefire Poker, Poker X Factor, Cardrunners and Deuces Cracked are all excellent and it's mad to not benefit from them.
There are so many more articles in more magazines, and lots of really high quality books around. You should just always be reading and absorbing.
Basically it is all a ton of hard work.
Like the man said:
"It's a tough way to make an easy living."
This got the conversation moving, and next to input was Nick Abou Risk, double UKIPT winner, and a former Poker Software Developer.
"I think Neil gave a pretty good response. I think guys should be consistently making more from poker part-time than in their full-time job and have several years (5-10) worth of living expenses saved up (instead of the old suggestion of 6 months...) before going pro. I think Neil gave a pretty good response. I think guys should be consistently making more from poker part-time than in their full-time job and have several years (5-10) worth of living expenses saved up (instead of the old suggestion of 6 months...) before going pro.
I did call out Nick for being overly nitty, and Max Silver (2 WSOPE Final Tables in 2011 and 16th in 2012's main event) certainly agreed with that assessment with some light hearted banter.
What everyone agreed on was the need to have a solid Bankroll Management Structure in place, and to err on the side of caution, ensuring that you have your expenses covered.
Andrew Ferguson (a very decent online tournament grinder) chipped in at this point commenting that with all the changes to Online Poker since Black Friday, people were still working out what is and isn't sustainable in the new poker environment, especially for those in the US with such limited access to action. But it's also a real issue for Euro players, with the French, Spanish, Italian player pools being segregated away from the general poker field.
Nick also pointed out that without a high degree of self motivation, and the will to put in the same amount of time as a "regular" full time job, both on and off the table, a new pro was very unlikely to improve, and be able to sustain a profitable record. He also added "If you aren't putting in much time, might as well do it part-time while working IMO."
With these guys really knowing what they're talking about, I'm more than happy to let their words speak to this subject, but I'll do my best to add in the TLDR version:
1. Most poker players do not make a profit, and those that do make less than a "regular" job
2. Self-motivation is paramount, if you aren't willing to put in the work and time, it's not going to work out.
3. Use the resources available, with coaching sites and forums there to offer advice and training, you'd be a fool not to use them.
4. A proper BRM is massively important, as is ensuring you have all your bills covered for a significant period of time.
5. In this volatile period in Professional Poker, no-one really know what is a sustainable win rate, or hourly earning. We will only know this in time.
If you are still interested in turning pro after reading this, you will most likely have a lot to get ready. Take it slow, and if you aren't earning more at poker than you are at your day job, keep practising, training and getting better, and if you are destined to be the next Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan, you will see it in your results. Get ready to take the dive into the deep end, and prepare for the worst, make sure you will have a roof over your head, and food in your belly even if you end up on the sickest of downswings.
If you've found this advice helpful, I've done my job, and given back to this community. If you feel you want to gve back to me, any donations to the drinks bill I've run up getting these guys together will be gratefully accepted!
04-21-2013
, 06:34 PM
