I've been doing it for a living since 2002. I derive zero pleasure from the game and the "job". It's a means to an end and nothing more. You kids and your idealism... the lifestyle is far different than you imagine it to be. This is one of the only places where when I tell people that I've been playing poker for a living for 13 years that they are envious or impressed or whatever; everywhere else, and you are nothing but a degenerate leech who contributes nothing to society.

The truth is, in the corporate world where I hailed from, there's more exploitation going on there but you wear a suit and tie and use formal and at times ambiguous language. Poker is more straight-forward; I'm there to take your money and you know it and you still sit. That, in and of itself, does not make it the superior choice, though.

You kids sit in your room munching on chips and playing on your computer all day all paid by your folks and dream of just clicking buttons all day and making loads of cash and partying all night and rinse and repeat. Well, the fact is, that was true during the boom. A person with an 85 IQ could make $40K a year with a few hours of instruction from a winning player, but that ship has sailed.

Today, poker is like any other occupation that requires specialized training. If you want 6-figs a year from poker (and this should be the minimum for most people (I could elaborate on why if I must), unless you just want to do it for a few years), then you are going to have to work hard for it. Harder than just obtaining a master's degree and getting a legit job.

Working a technical field that required a lot of education to get in the door, I've almost always found myself surrounded by great people. You never hear that on the forum in the "soulless corporate world" rants. Almost every place I've worked has been filled with wonderful people who had diverse and interesting outside of work lives, who treated their families well, and were people I have been truly glad to know. For that, if for no other reason, get enough education to get into a job where there are other well-educated and motivated people. Maybe that's different in money-focused fields (where bankers are exactly the soulless corporate hacks you hear about), but in tech jobs I'm always amazed at how good the people are. As a consultant, I've been in tons of offices and have seen more companies than most.

I contrast that to my poker friends who talk about walking into Commerce every day and feeling like they're forced to endure the worst humanity has to offer. Could that that's just part of the local color of the place, but it is something to think about.

I plan on trying to make a living playing poker at casinos (live in the u.s.) and want some advice on what to study and practice. Ive played 3-6 limit hold em with moderate success but after reading that its hard to be profitable in the long run due the rake feel like I need some advice on what game to study.
I have saved up a bankroll of about 1,800. I turn 21 in 3 months which is the age I need to be in my state to play in casinos. I have limited experience playing for real money. What version of hold em would you recommend focusing on and playing at first?
Ive read SSHE by sklansky and super system 2 and a few other beginners books. If you have any specific ideas for what I should study and do to gain experience and confidence that would be great.

If you are very tall, basketball.
If you are fast and agile, football
If you are very heavy built, american football.

Oh well, for any of them goes the same as for poker i guess. You dont aspire to be pro. You play because you like it and if you do it an aweful lot, who knows maybe someday you get lucky enough that you can make a living on it. Dont count on it though. And if you ever make a living in poker, you will be far beyond the point of asking this question anyway.

K. Thanks for the condescending post.
What is your opinion on 3-6 limit hold em? Do you think its to hard to beat, but might still have some value as experience?
Do you have any advice to offer on a good game to start out with with said bank roll?
Not everyone can make a living playing poker, what an insight.

It wasn't condescending, it was bluntly honest. It's a rake trap. Take your $1800 to your nearest community college and aspire to be a professional at a career that has guaranteed income.

It was opinionated and pretentious. I have an education, a job, guaranteed income, etc. I play poker because I enjoy it, I put work in, and ive had success online. It very well may be unrealistic to think I can make a living at it, but I also have no reason not to try. Other than potentially losing money that wont affect me. No more non-constructive criticism from you is needed.

These questions are asked on the daily - don't be offended that we're offended by you not using the search function. Not a good sign of an up and coming poker professional and the college education even in today's job market is likely much more +EV for you.

Since you have gotten me to reply I may as well add a bit of productivity to my post since I berate people for not doing so.

Here you go sir, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...forum-1368796/

Best of luck.

What kind of success, and at what games? What's your winrate, and over how many hands? Why do you want to switch to playing live instead of continuing to play online? There are plenty of reasons not to try, but the most important one IMO is that your average poker pro makes a meager living with no benefits.

Best of luck, though.

Also, your thread will soon be merged into this one, so you should probably get a jump on reading it.

You must be psychic

Going to add that if you're going to be ****ed in two years if you can no longer play poker professionally, you shouldn't play poker professionally because various things may prevent you from doing so long-term.

yes poker dieing is the reason why I think poker players who arn't frugal willing to invest 50k/year+ USD you should pursue other things if you are young

if you are 30+ and have kids obv you are **** outta luck

come again?

you should be investing a large portion of your income per year as a poker pro as this games future is highly uncertain

Once you have a $40,000 BR and reliably beat 20/40 LHE with decent results shot taking at 40/80, consider going pro. I think it is too soon, but some people have pulled it off. Really, beat 40/80 with an $80k-$100k roll. Then, let's talk about taking it to the "no day job" level.

Come over to the Small Stakes LHE forum. A number of LHE pros post there. Read every painful line in Jesse's Blog -- he went pro playing 20/40 LHE, was a good player, made it 4(?) years, and decided to go back to programming. He's a success story, and a good writer. He's recreationally playing 100/200 at Commerce, right now.

It wasn't, but I can see how you might think it was.

Many places, you won't be able to beat 3/6 due to rake. (Again, stop by the SSLHE forum). It has some value as experience, but his point about aspiring to go pro is correct. I'm 5'9", when I was 16 should I have aspired to the NBA? What if I were 7'1"? Different starting places.

Re-read this entire thread. If you're going to go pro, absolutely crush poker first. Then consider going pro. Poker as a career starting from zero? It is a long way off.

Honestly if you want to be a live pro, consider the games in your area. Are they LHE? Are they NL? Know your market if you want to succeed in business.

Hey guys,

I haven't read the whole thread as yet but I would appreciate your opinion on the following scenario.

The wife works full time and brings in a good wage, I'm going to work 16-20hrs per week in a 'simple' job.

I love playing poker and study relatively hard and I would like to bring in around $10,000-$15,000 per year playing poker.

This isn't an unrealistic goal is it?

Thanks

What is your current hourly, over what sample size? Should be easy to start with that and go from there.

leads all of us to think this:
Take your hourly as a recreational player only playing awesome Friday or Saturday evening games once a month while rested and eager to play. Assume your hourly will go down as you add hours. If you like where that leads you, you're already there.
Let's say you find time to play 500 decent hours a year. You want to make $30/hour. What limit/game do you currently beat for $30/hour? If not that, then what? As always, over what sample did you compute this hourly.

Let's say you've played 400 hours to date. If you leave off the first 150 hours (because you lost) and then the last 20 (ran bad and played drunk a bit), it makes it harder to extrapolate off the remaining 230. Not saying you'd do this, but as a Small Stakes mod I'll say it comes up more often than not.

Even if you can absolutely crush LHE, you'll make more working fast food. 1.5 BB/hr at LHE is the best you can expect. can you live on $9/hr no benefits?

When people were reporting those win rates, the rake was $3 and there was no BBJP. In California, I believe you see a $6+ dead drop (money taken before the flop). Around here, the rake is $5+$2. If you could have made $9/hour in the day, assuming you win ~3 pots/hour, the additional $12/hour in rake makes you a $3/hour loser. You go from absolutely crushing (1.5BB/HR is close to 5BB/100) to a moderate loser, assuming the games are equally soft.

Winning at all in LHE games 6/12 or smaller is a big accomplishment. I think Bellagio has $4/hand rake at 10/20, and that game can be crushed. Their next step up is 20/40 with $5/half hour, and that game is the best rake for a smaller game in the country afaik. If our OP were playing 6/12 with CA rake, I'd say he'd have trouble counting on $9/hr in that game even as the best player at the table.

tl;dr to say nobody wins 1.5BB/HR in a modern rake structure 3/6 game. If you could put 3/6 players in a 30/60, then sure.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes I suppose that makes sense. It sounds simple enough, work out your hourly rate and times it by the number of hours that you will play.

I suppose the hard part is to have a good enough hourly rate.

I mean aside from DougL's excellent point that your WR is probably not your 'ideal WR', this is kind of the minimum starting point for going pro. If you can't make $x per hour right now, deciding that you are now 'pro' makes zero difference. It's not a magical baseball cap that ups your winrate...you just quit your job, that's all.

Yeah you're spot on.

Personally Im in a good situation where I can let my poker improvement happen 'organically'. In other words I don't have pressure to earn a certain amount or do it in a certain time frame. Im going to keep on chipping away until it happens. I believe its important not to put too much pressure on yourself because at the end of the day there are much more important things than poker. And remember the other benefits apart from the money

My end goal is to be able to make a living of poker.
What is the easiest format to make a living of?
MTT, SNG, Cash Zoom or Cash Multi Tabling?

At which of these formats can you make a living with a skill level relatively easy to the other formats?

"Easy" and "make a living from poker" do not belong in the same sentence. Off to a bad start.