H3 - why 4bet the turn

Last hand is fine imo

TDA:
All seem ok apart from the first one.
1: Is anyone calling 3 streets with worse than Q high?
2: Nice fold, would be hard to fold against a total fish alone.
3: I guess he was bluffing.
4. I'd probably bet 3 streets and lose more
5: Meh, it happens.
6: lol wat?

Worst fold I saw today was ott, a fish had 27c behind in position (4NL). One player bet 24c OOP, and fish raised all in to 27c.
The original better folded!
I hope it was a misclick, there was about 50bb in the pot and less than a bb to call!

Oly found his Mojo!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0&postcount=16

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the two hands I've posted there.

@Stude, obviously I'm bluffing in H1.

Obviously
Just realised I messed up:
6. Not calling here - we need a better hand to call a shove and we only have TPTK.
7. lol wat? It amazes me how aggro donks can play it wrong at every opportunity and end up taking our money.
This is why I disagree when people say we outplay opponents when we take their money, no more no less (and vice versa).

They are making in more mistakes than us then money will flow towards us in the long run. The result of a single hand is irrelevant.

Yes, good point, I need to remember that.

Going through some debatable river calls in my DB.

Don't see where I can get away from this. Pre should have been a flat but as played I can't really fold anywhere.

BTN: $47.24 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 17, 3B: 4, AF: 2.7, Hands: 139
SB: $12.25 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 7
Hero (BB): $26.02
UTG: $19.61 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 3.3, Hands: 452
MP: $39.27 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 11, 3B: 9, AF: 2.5, Hands: 127
CO: $56.17 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 16, 3B: 6, AF: 0.0, Hands: 38

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with J A
2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, CO raises to $4.50, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($9.10) A 6 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25

Turn: ($17.60) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $8.50, Hero calls $8.50

River: ($34.60) T (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $13.50, Hero calls $8.77 all in



Think i should fold river. He won't be value betting worse very often and its not the best board for a triple barrel bluff.

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - [
BTN: $23.19 - VPIP: 32, PFR: 16, 3B: 19, AF: 2.0, Hands: 31
SB: $17.79 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 56
BB: $14.79 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 17, 3B: 50, AF: 0.0, Hands: 6
UTG: $25.49 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 11, 3B: 5, AF: 4.0, Hands: 89
MP: $5.88 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 6, 3B: 1, AF: 1.8, Hands: 287
Hero (CO): $83.26

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A J
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.70, BTN raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.35) 2 Q J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.00, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($8.35) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50

River: ($17.35) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $14.69, Hero calls $14.69

edit:
another one

Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2300343


BTN: $27.41 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 18, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 11
SB: $51.50 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 16, 3B: 7, AF: 2.9, Hands: 2999
Hero (BB): $80.90
UTG: $57.31 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 24, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 21
MP: $137.16 - VPIP: 32, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 22
CO: $104.94 - VPIP: 57, PFR: 43, 3B: 25, AF: 0.0, Hands: 7

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with A J
2 folds, CO raises to $1.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) J 7 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.25) A (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50

River: ($15.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14.00, Hero?

id usually say snap call but sizing is usually big give away OTR.

Dunno bout rivers but think ur getting pf wrong.

H1 is a flat or 3bet/fold. Never a 3bet/call

H2 is a fold or 4bet

h1 he basically min 4bet. can't fold getting just under 4/1. I agree though it should be a flat pre.

h2 is a call pre. He isn't full stacked 3b less than 3x so I likely have a big skill edge over him.

I'm not flatting 4bets OOP with AJo regardless of sizing unless villain is a massive fish.

Lots of button clickers around this evening.
Saw a 47/13 randomly 4 bet all in pre with 67o up against AA (which won!).

1. Button clicker #1 would bet/call with anything. Saw him call 3 streets with Kxs on A high flop with no flush draw...
Didn't buy his flop raise, but was more concerned about his river raise but pot odds mean I can never fold right?
PS. He ended up with VPIP 75/7 over the session.

iPoker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.06 (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (SB): $4.09
BB: $6.73 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has J J

BTN calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.16, fold, BTN calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.36, 2 players) 8 7 3
Hero bets $0.25, BTN raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.25

Turn: ($1.36, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($1.36, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $0.95, BTN raises to $1.40, Hero calls $0.45



2. Any merit to flatting here? Villain is a nit, I'm pretty sure he'll fold to a 3bet but just couldn't bring myself to flat AA.

iPoker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $4.80 (VPIP: 3.57, PFR: 3.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
UTG: $7.61 (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
MP: $7.14 (VPIP: 13.79, PFR: 13.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
CO: $4.00 (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BTN: $4.28 (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 28)
Hero (SB): $4.04

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A A

fold, MP raises to $0.14, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.52, fold, fold



3. BTN seems reggish, I figure he's isoing the fish and might give me credit for a hand. Don't think he'd 4 bet bluff, or would he? Opinions?
Think I have to let the go, worst I'd be up against would be AK.

iPoker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $5.84 (VPIP: 32.16, PFR: 12.16, 3Bet Preflop: 3.09, Hands: 264)
CO: $4.16 (VPIP: 18.88, PFR: 15.66, 3Bet Preflop: 9.59, Hands: 251)
BTN: $4.92 (VPIP: 17.74, PFR: 16.26, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 126)
Hero (SB): $4.06
BB: $5.81 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: $4.36 (VPIP: 28.86, PFR: 4.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 449)

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A Q

UTG calls $0.04, MP calls $0.04, fold, BTN raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.56, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.40, fold

@TDA, just find it hard to fold getting such good odds but yea you and dunna are probably right.

@stude
H1: 3b GII. I'd probably fold river but calling isn't awful
h2: pretty dependent on his fold to 3bet stat. SB would be the least likely place for me to flat AA though.
H3: We don't know if he will 4bet bluff without his 4bet stats and fold to 3bet stats whether raising 3betting AQs it better than flatting here is dependent on both.

gamma: h3. He's folded 2/3 3 bets pre, and not 4 bet - not enough hands on him!

H2, I'd consider flatting much more often if BB was a maniac.

Yeah, that would be perfect.

Should maybe have shipped pre, but as soon as I saw his cards I knew how the board was going to run out...
btw, I was short because my KK was cracked by T6s that turned a straight after calling the cbet :/

PokerStars - $0.23+$0.02|25/50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 1,041 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 905 (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BTN: 1,793 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 1,400 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BB: 2,155 (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
Hero (UTG): 780
UTG+1: 881 (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
MP: 3,710 (VPIP: 80.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 25, BB posts BB 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 75) Hero has A A

Hero raises to 200, UTG+1 calls 200, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 150

Flop: (625, 3 players) 9 6 4
BB bets 50, Hero raises to 580 and is all-in, fold, BB calls 530

Turn: (1,785, 2 players) 4

River: (1,785, 2 players) T

I assume you mean probabilistically?

More like fatalistically.
But really, I was just being facetious.

Usually draws IME. I've stacked 3 people in my last 2 5NL sessions when they shoved over my cbets and I called with OPs. 2 OESDs and one baby FD. I think they were all short stackers. YMMV.

Seems like every time I play NL5 I play like ass. :P
Need to really focus on the games these days. I often find myself just clicking buttons and saying "well he could have it, I don't know maybe not" or something. My thought process is either inexistent or not really there at all unfortunately. Huge leak that I shall work on soon.

I feel think I should have raised turn,and got it in with 99+

Also, my BR is 800+, I'm thinking about playing on WH and playing 20nl 6mx but I dunno if its worth it

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 217.3 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
UTG+1: 244.6 BB (VPIP: 19.91, PFR: 9.84, 3Bet Preflop: 4.21, Hands: 447)
UTG+2: 196.2 BB (VPIP: 32.56, PFR: 11.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 44)
MP: 103.1 BB (VPIP: 14.67, PFR: 10.75, 3Bet Preflop: 4.40, Hands: 1,127)
MP+1: 389.8 BB (VPIP: 39.50, PFR: 16.30, 3Bet Preflop: 1.35, Hands: 320)
CO: 250 BB (VPIP: 61.54, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (BTN): 155.2 BB
SB: 240.6 BB (VPIP: 19.44, PFR: 11.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 183)
BB: 196.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts DB 1 BB, 9 players post ante of 0.2 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 4.3 BB) Hero has J Q

UTG raises to 5 BB, fold, UTG+2 calls 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (19.3 BB, 3 players) 6 8 3
UTG bets 11 BB, fold, Hero calls 11 BB

Turn: (41.3 BB, 2 players) 3
UTG bets 18 BB, Hero calls 18 BB

River: (77.3 BB, 2 players) K
UTG bets 36 BB, Hero calls 36 BB

Down a fair bit for the day.

I like the Simpson one best

5nl is the rock bottom really. Don't level yourself!
I believe that at that level + 10nl, if you presume that the villain has it, it will be more profitable than the guessing game. In cases where in example, board runs out 4-to a straight. Folding has to be more profitable than calling, just because the pot is bloated OTR. Also folding for cbet raises will rarely show in the graph. Calling to the river and villain has it, will cause a lot bigger loss. Just my thoughts from this month. I leveled myself for a lot of calls "just because it's 10nl"
Taking a break from poker partially due to a lack of time, will be interesting to see what these thoughts develop into when i get back. If i'm able to beat 10nl!