Live cash, 3 players in a hand, in EP, MP and button. Button bets ott and both call. Otr, both EP and MP check, and button tables his hand.

Question #1:
Does that mean action's over, button's hand's dead or another result? Would it make a difference if this was a tournament instead of a cash game?

Question #2:
Assuming action's over, EP takes a while but after about 15 seconds decides to muck. MP then tables the winning hand. Did a slowroll occur?

I'm moving this to beginner questions.

It's for your own good...

Question 1-When facing multiway action, tabling your hand last to act should close action. In tournament, tabling your hand last to act in multiway or headsup should close action.

Question 2-Not a slowroll unless MP had the nuts, then it could be argued that he slowrolled.

Why would it be (potentially) a slowroll if MP had the nuts? Does MP's holding really matter/affect the result?

Some people argue that if you have the nuts, and action is closed, doing anything but tabling your hand at this point is a slow roll.

Do you personally care/believe that? Just curious about EP, what about seeing/not seeing his hand?

I personally fastroll just about everytime, unless there is some kind of history with the other player(s). The value of the scant information you get by waiting to see villain's hand isn't worth slowing the game down or annoying other players.

In multiway action, if the last player waited for me to table my hand, I wouldn't be that annoyed. A mild slowroll, in my opinion.

If it's not ruled as a check then I'd be very worried about playing there.

There's a little history as MP wanted to see EP's hand. MP didn't have the nuts for sure though. I suppose it depends on how thin-skinned and low self-esteemed certain players are, to think everything is a slight against them. For example, I wouldn't even flinch if someone slowrolled me. Winning hand's a winning hand, just don't slow up the table.


Just putting out all the options, for sure it was closed action.

In a well run card room, there aren’t any options. BU basically checked by tabling his hand and the other two players can show or muck.

If there are other options, one could be to kill all three hands and award the pot to SB. Just because.

If MP really wants to wait for EP even though he knows he has a winner, that’s his right. But other players also have a right to be upset about him slowing down the game.

Again, I'm just putting out all options to see what answers come. Of course I'd expect button tabling his hand=closed action.

What about EP slowing the game? The onus is on him to either muck or show. It's just following the rules and order of things. It's kinda like saying everyone should follow the rules buuuut MP should just show even though it's not following procedure to 'speed up the game' so therefore it's his fault, which is silly. The button's simply stupid to expose himself to what he thinks is a slowroll. Next time, just check behind and wait for EP and then MP to show.

MP is not slowing down the game. Only thing slow here is EP (assumed) trying to figure out if he beat button's tabled hand. As soon as EP mucked, MP showed. He would not have to show if his hand was a loser to button's hand. And as other's have said, if MP has the nuts....he should have tabled immediately as a matter of etiquette. I don't buy it from anyone that MP needed to show immediately if he felt he was ahead of EP.

MP has the right to see EP hand. MP also has the right to muck his hand if it losing to EP. He also should muck immediately if he is behind button's tabled hand.

And no, MP did not slowroll button.

THANK YOU.

Unfortunately, A LOT of players think there's some slowroll happening and don't agree with what you wrote. My only slight variance with what you wrote is regarding MP having the nuts, why would it matter? I don't think it's a slowroll there either.

Because....it is ALL about the etiquette when a player has the nuts.

You can wait to show if you are entitled....but it is really a supreme douche:bag that waits to show the nuts.

Slowrolling is not against the rules. It is a breech of etiquette. And in your particular example, if MP had the nuts he is the lowest order of pond scum.

imo


edit: you can tweak your example to having EP as a notorious slow-roller himself......then waiting it out with the nuts is appropriate. But to go to the other extreme, if EP is a casual (not a reg)....any delay by MP (with the nuts) is extremely distasteful.

In the real examples, MP doesn't have anywhere near the nuts.

Anyway, I'd have to disagree there unless there's some verbal exchange/condescending attitude, whatevs, I wouldn't take it as a slowroll if I was the recipient. I would realize MP has the right to see EP's cards, that's it. I think it's laughable to go as far as saying MP is the lowest of the low if he had the nuts and waited for EP.

...and that is your opinion.

and yes, palming your cards or hiding big denomination chips, slowing the game to a crawl because of phone use (or other avoidable distractions)....many other issues that are worse than a simple slow roll.

Doesn't make slowrolling with the nuts OK. Still goes against conventional etiquette of poker.

Don't be that guy. Just fastroll your winners. The very scant amount of information you get by playing the 'no, you show first' game is not worth slowing the game down, and is only useful if you think that the player is unable to adjust after he shows part of his range. The amount of frustration it adds to the game is not worth the information that you probably won't be able to use anyways.

yes, you have stated this numerous times. Doesn't have any bearing on your question "why does it matter if MP has the nuts"

How does MP know he is the winner?

In this particular scenario, I see no reason MP has to flip 'em over.

SIMM, there are clearly two correct answers to the showdown sequence. And your "side" is as correct as my "side". It's been argued on 2+2 since...well, since there was a 2+2.

Whether or not information is gained (and subsequently used) is not really the issue for me. The rules of poker (and/or House Rules) clearly define sequence of flipping. At the other extreme is etiquette strongly suggests showing the nuts asap.

The in-between gray area is up for grabs and subject to each player to decide his actions......in my opinion. Not matter what you choose to do should have the standard poker answer: It depends. Don't tap the tank should always be at the top of every serious poker player's MO.... and does rightfully come into this slowroll discussion often.

FWIW, it’s not about having “the nuts” but about having the obvious winner. If you have one, just table your hand unless you have a reason not to.

If the board reads something like KhTh9h7h2d and MP has the A-high flush, he should table his hands after EP hesitated even though his hand loses to 3 different straight flushes. If you know you have the winner, table your hand and move on.

Ok, so King Spew's saying if you have the nuts, we should insta-table every time...otherwise it's douchy (unless the EP and MP have history)?

Agree with madlex that obvious winner should table. We do not have that in the OP.

ss1, that is my opinion.

Unless villain banged your mom or something like that just table the nuts and take the pot.

The scenario I was responding to was "Anyway, I'd have to disagree there unless there's some verbal exchange/condescending attitude, whatevs, I wouldn't take it as a slowroll if I was the recipient. I would realize MP has the right to see EP's cards, that's it. I think it's laughable to go as far as saying MP is the lowest of the low if he had the nuts and waited for EP. "

If you have the nuts' or the near nuts, you know you have a winner. If you have something like TPNK and don't want to show that you will call a preflop raise with A4o, sure, wait until the cards are tabled in the proper order. But being the 'I know I have likely won, but I am going to wait until everyone tables in order so that I can get precious information' guy is not a good guy to be.

Sure, it is your right, but, along with the guy who invoked IWTSTH and the guy who waits for it to be his turn before checking his cards, pauses for 15 seconds, and then folds, those guys are annoying and typically bad for the game.

OP, if multiple people at the table thought you slowrolled a guy, you probably did.

+1 for SIMM's reply