Is this the right play - Beginning Poker Questions

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Is this the right play

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03-02-2011 , 11:30 PM

kanji405

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 21

The BTN is 33/4 with 2% attempt to steal over 135 hands

Merge - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: $10.02
MP: $9.55
MP+1: $11.96
LP: $10.57
CO: $5.85
BTN: $4.28
Hero (SB): $10.86
BB: $9.52
UTG: $6.99

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has J

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.15, fold, BTN calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.40, 2 players) Q

Hero bets $1.60, BTN calls $1.60

Turn: ($5.60, 2 players) 6

Hero bets $2.00, BTN calls $1.53 and is all-in

River: ($8.66, 2 players) K

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03-02-2011 , 11:43 PM

BackFromABannin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,939

I would have probably just flatted pre,other than that well played.

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03-03-2011 , 12:25 AM

kanji405

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 21

The main reason I ask is because of the low attempt to steal. Even though i have very few hands on him.

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03-03-2011 , 01:13 AM

1847 in Norway

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 993

Be logical. We know that 33/4's cannot be positionally aware. Therefore, we can expect his opening range from any position to be as expressed by his PFR stat.

If villain is opening 4% of hands here, then why would we want to 3bet?

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03-03-2011 , 03:59 AM

TBobLP

can't finish

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,605

sorry to be harsh but here goes...

YOU LOST, DEAL WITH IT

this is a cooler....how the hell could you ever play this differently? flat pre? HELL NO! you played it perfectly. you focus on hands like this u will end up with a stagnant game...this is standard

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03-03-2011 , 04:00 AM

TBobLP

can't finish

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackFromABannin

I would have probably just flatted pre,other than that well played.

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03-03-2011 , 04:00 AM

TBobLP

can't finish

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1847 in Norway

did u see the flop tho? pf is fine

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03-03-2011 , 06:52 AM

zaiga000

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 854

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBobLP

did u see the flop tho? pf is fine

Wait, wat? One more time, the guy opens 4%, why would we want to 3bet JJ exactly against that range?

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03-03-2011 , 07:36 AM

tower$

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 580

135 hands is nothing.
This was played fine imo.

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03-03-2011 , 09:50 AM

#10

Bad Beat Wizard

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 808

I'd prob check the flop

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03-03-2011 , 10:53 AM

#11

kanji405

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBobLP

I understand I lost thats not the point. I am asking for help if there is a different way to play this. Or if at any point I should be able to read that I am beat.

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03-03-2011 , 10:56 AM

#12

BackFromABannin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanji405

I understand I lost thats not the point. I am asking for help if there is a different way to play this. Or if at any point I should be able to read that I am beat.

Never ever fold

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03-03-2011 , 10:57 AM

#13

BackFromABannin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBobLP

I forgot to mention Im a nit though

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03-03-2011 , 12:25 PM

#14

hamdoggg

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,241

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanji405

I understand I lost thats not the point. I am asking for help if there is a different way to play this. Or if at any point I should be able to read that I am beat.

Different way to play this? As said, you could just flat the preflop raise...but raising is not terrible either (although, say you had a few thousand hands against this guy and not just 130 with 4% open, I would def flat Jacks here)

Anyway, after that flop, NEVER folding. You are not getting away from this...just a cooler.

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03-03-2011 , 12:47 PM

#15

TBobLP

can't finish

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaiga000

Wait, wat? One more time, the guy opens 4%, why would we want to 3bet JJ exactly against that range?

Sample size...don't be a hudbot

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03-03-2011 , 12:59 PM

#16

hamdoggg

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,241

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamdoggg

The only way you MIGHT get a way from this is if another Q comes on the turn and you are almost positive he has AA or KK (thus your boat would be counterfeited)

I am guessing since you lost this he had KK and rivered a bigger boat?

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03-03-2011 , 03:59 PM

#17

kanji405

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamdoggg

He actually had QQ, flopped quads.

BTW thanks for the advice that is what I was looking for.

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03-03-2011 , 04:12 PM

#18

hamdoggg

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,241

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanji405

He actually had QQ, flopped quads.

BTW thanks for the advice that is what I was looking for.

lol QQ works too...can't worry about that either. If someone is folding a flopped boat because they are afraid their opponent has flopped quads, then they shouldn't be playing poker IMO (aside from trips on the board). Like I said, just a cooler.

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03-03-2011 , 05:34 PM

#19

sump

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,136

Not being results oriented i am just a bit curious:

Is anyone flatting JJ OOP ? Most flops with A K Q we are slowing down and slowing down even more if there is 2 of the 3 on the board. Low boards we are likely ahead and can get at least take a c-bet away from someone holding AK/AQ?

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03-03-2011 , 07:05 PM

#20

FrankBullitt

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sump

Is anyone flatting JJ OOP ? Most flops with A K Q we are slowing down and slowing down even more if there is 2 of the 3 on the board. Low boards we are likely ahead and can get at least take a c-bet away from someone holding AK/AQ?

I am going to 3bet against a steal either on a bluff or for value. With JJ against a 34/4, I don't think you're going to accomplish either of these. But yes, if I had JJ I would be happy to raise AQ out of the hand.

4% over 135 hands is raising 5 hands -- good enough sample for me. Postflop was a cooler.

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03-03-2011 , 08:49 PM

#21

1847 in Norway

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 993

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBobLP

Sample size...don't be a hudbot

This would be a valid argument if we had reads. 3betting turns us into a level 1 bot omg i hav a preemyum hand and im oop i must 3bet fold becuz i cant play psotflop lol$.

A 4pfr over a 135+ sample size isn't going to turn into 10+ pfr.

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03-04-2011 , 09:45 AM

#22

zaiga000

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 854

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBobLP

Sample size...don't be a hudbot

So we raise JJ, because it is JJ? Isn't that just as mindless as making plays based purely on insignificant stats, or perhaps even more so?

Also, I think 135 hands is significant enough for PFR.

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03-04-2011 , 10:03 AM

#23

BeerMonster

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 460

I raise preflop for the following reasons;

JJ is a premium hand
I want the fullstack BB out. JJ is a premium because of it's strength HU. It's an extremely difficult hand to play OOP in a 3way pot, and is in fact probably not a profitable hand in those circumstances.
If I'm 4bet it's fairly easy to get away from, or I can decide to flip for half a stack if I'm feeling frisky.
If he flats you're taking this away with a lead on a tonne of A/K high flops anyway.

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