Whats your views on this move?

Say your in a hand with an opponent and your pretty sure your opponent doesnt have much on the flop, yet u dont want to invest any more money until ur certain so you look to later streets for info, and also lets say the opponent is loose and is always callin check raises with small pieces and draws.
Lets say

($0.50/$1.00)
Villian is BTN with XX
Hero is in BB with XX
BTN raises to $3.00
Hero calls $2.00

Flop ($6.50)
A 9 3
Hero Checks
Villian bets $4
Hero ??

If you raise this flop with air your opponent may think.. "he thinks i dont have an ace he has air or a 9 either way i think my two overs (unders to the ace) Q and 10 are live. plus there are turn cards that can improve my drawing outs i.e. a J giving me a double gutter".

So instead we can flat call

To the turn
K

as an ace is on the flop we cant really credibly bet the turn if a Q/J/K to represent it as why would we be betting here with an ace on board we represent more turned gutshot/flush draw semi bluffs i believe as if we are calling we are representing either say a 9 ourselves which a lot of the time the bettor wil think hes good if he hits his overs, or we are repping a trap.

And of course we'd prefer to represent the trap but why would we be bettin this turn if we checked the flop trapping? would we not continue to trap? by check raising the turn?

There then comes the problem in that we dont really want to be givin the opponent a free card by checking this turn and for him to check back and hit a hand with showdown value. So maybe leadin the turn on bkdoor flush draw boards is ok and looks credible?


The river
3

Getting there by:

After checking twice
We dont look a whole lot strong therefore if we are goin to bluff this river i think we have to always bet big on the river the villian hasnt represented any strength by checkin back the turn so he cant have a strong hand a lot, the only problem is we represent missed draws a lot by betting as he knows he looks weak and that we will probably be betting with a wide range, thats why i think its vital to bet big in this spot as he will think that we think he'l be thinkin we are bettin a missed draw therefore it looks that by betting big we have a big hand because why would we bet so big when its a obvious steal spot? if that makes sense. Also big bets normally represent strength.

After check raising
It seems like he is calling your check raise with a draw or maybe with increased equity so be careful what river card you bet! his likely holdings can be weak aces A2-AJ sometimes AQ-AK which is bad times if you are thinking of bluffing the river (the AQ-AK hands).
So a lot of the time im shuvin this river.. your not called that often and your balancing your trapping range when called the problem with shuving the river is he may be thinking what are we thinking he has that can call therefore can we ever be shuvin for value? But if he has no reason to hero call then there isnt really a reason for him to call.

We might not need to shuv the river a smaller bet may work however personally im shuvin my nuts (<--lol) here so for balance im shuvin my bluffs the same way.

Leading the Turn
When we lead the turn and get called i think we are gettin called a lot by his hands with showdown value as he will have folded out his air by the river so i think betting the river is 50/50 as i think we may be gettin called a lot by his hands that have hit and he wil be fold to a small bet with his missed draws so therefore i think a standard bet size 2/3 3/4 pot range should be the only bet we make probably leaning towards the 2/3 as we're obv getin a cheaper price and i dont think 3/4s increases the fold equity enough, if hes nitty and may fold to a big bet on the river then obv this bet is player/scenario/dynamically specific.

Anyway Id like to know any of your thoughts on this I basically think that reverse floating isnt a great play and its not something i do a lot and im not sure many of you will either as I think it a lot of the spots ive described its easy for us to not represent a whole lot or we're not sure what we're tryin to rep and we get called a lot. Plus when the villian has a hand we can be paying him off with nothing! Be interesting to read your responses also a lot of these situations are player/board/dynamic dependant

can we get a hella view?

I think you are posting this in the wrong forum.

Try the theory forum.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/

And post when you have posted it in there as I am interested in people thoughts on this also.

posted MMD

NIce one

Your reasoning on the rives seems off.

Since we can credible have been trying to c/r turn our turn check isn't nearly as weak as our opponents. The range we have on river contains the hands that we call with on the flop and since we are rarely leading turn or c/r'ing flop even with our monsters we can have anything but we will rarely have air.

On the other hand our opponent decided to not bet turn so he will very rarely have a good hand. He will either have air or a weak bluff-catcher and his range will be more air heavy as he is likely to be opening wide from BTN.

So if we have decided to float the flop we absolutely need to bet the river here. But we don't need to bet big as he a lot of hands that will just fold regardless.

If he calls your turn c/r he is going to call the river way to often. Your range is polarized at nuts/air and nothing changes by the river so if he calls turn he will most likely call river as well (I don't expect him to show up with a draw very often here).

But there is a reason as to why you rarely float OOP and all the arguments you present in the OP is amongst the reason why it shouldn't be done very often. especially on boards like these which also proves why you would tend to c-bet your entire range on flops like that.

Of course the most important factor in all of this is player tendencies and knowing how wide he opens BTN is crucial and knowing what kind of hands you tend to defend with from bb will help you get an idea of how he will perceive your range.

reverse floating is the best way to make money in poker

Reverse floating (or floating oop) is not recommended at lower stakes than 25NL, as valuebetting makes more sense. (Don't get sucked into 'fancy play syndrome' in the micros).

SharkbaitOHH made a great post about here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...oating-972834/