Hey there,

for those of you who are semi-professionals, experts playing poker, but not full time players: I would like to know, what is the average hourly rate for an ambitious smart player, really trying hard being realistic about his thing & for which format, level / how many tables?

Also, if you have around 300 bucks to start with, what would you consider the most profitable "path" (such as: work yourself from 6max 0.1/0.2 up to 1/2 and you will have x/hr if you do well..)

I'd like to work towards something like 15/hr and'd be interested in you guys opinion!!

There are a lot of threads you can search for to get opinions on this topic if this one flames out. The one thing I may want to add for sure is the 'rate' call out.

For live poker it's BB/hour ... Typically 8-20bb/hour will 'tell' you that you are crushing.

For online poker it's BB/100 ... And from what I've seen this could be slightly lower and still be considered 'successful'. Since a lot of online players multi-table it doesn't make much sense to use 'time' in the rate. So hands played is used for online ratings.

As far as your $300 .. You typically want 20-50 buy-ins for the stakes you are playing. But when online it's more important to determine your skill level since for some folks the cash may not be a factor. (Which is what online players like to see.)

For reference, I have seen lately where even the 'successful' $.05/.10 players online 'should' be able to play 2/5 (if not 5/10) live and feel very comfortable with the skill level. So comparatively that's 3000BB online v only 60BB live and yet the same skill level is required. You really shouldn't sit down at a 2/5 game with 'only' $300 in your bankroll and yet the skill level required to play is the same.

Hope I got that out there for you ... GL

You sound like you might be looking for a 'get rich quick' scheme. Poker isn't that. For my first 100,000 hands of online poker, I won at 36 cents per hour.

Wow,,, you were KILLING it !!! (no joke)

eliminas....assume you are starting your play online, then you might HOPE to break even. Hope will probably be the only wiff of BE you get though since most struggle early. And if you are playing online...and learning/beginning,,,, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not play more than 2 or 3 tables at a time.

If you are playing live, you have a chance at maybe $2 or $3 per hour at 1/2NL.

for an ambitious smart player that is just starting out; 0+ is pretty darn good.

Your bankroll in the beginning is more like a budget. The 300 isn't your "bankroll" if you're not an established winner, you will need to replenish eventually if you don't manage to be profitable. The question shouldn't be how fast you can get there with 300 bucks but how quickly a player is able to learn.

i'd just start off working hard on your game and not worry about hourly rate too much

Alright guys, I thought about it and you are quite right! I shouldn't get tainted by the idea of earning quickly.

I would still be interested in some "success stories": what format did you start with to learn best? What worked out quickly, what didn't? Which one would you consider easiest to beat etc...

Thanks for the comments so far!!

eliminas

Play whatever you feel comfortable with first of all. Once you start realizing which format you have an edge in, focus on that variation.

I'm a big fan of cash games because of the deep stacks and the flexibility of being able to leave whenever I want. In tournaments you have to play the whole way through and bubbling is a horrible feeling (for me at least ) Some players may be into MTTs or STT Sit N Gos.

Just realize that each game has their concepts. Cash games being EV based. Tournaments being about chip counts, ICM, and etc.

I started with FR cash, and dabbled in SnGs. I think both of these are good (but slow) ways to learn the game while keeping initial losses under control. I think it's a good idea to try a few formats and see which one you like best (this is usually the format you accidentally start winning in first) and then specialize in it. I played about 100,000 hands of full ring before switching to 6-max. I wish I'd switched sooner, but I'm a nit. If you find tourneys more thrilling, start with one-table SnGs, then move to 45-mans, 90-mans, 180-mans and then the occasional big field MTT. Don't risk too much of your bankroll in the big-field games though. That's what fish do.

I don't know if you know this OP, but Doug Polk (arguably the best player in the world) is currently doing a bankroll challenge from a $100 start. He's crushing my 2012 winrate. Today he won at 47 cents an hour!

OP,

If you're looking for a 'success story', then I started in early 2012, and now I'm just about grinding out a living at about $45/hour post-rb at 100NL (this is net, my backers take a %). I've done a lot of study, and probably spent more time on poker than my degree. It would be so much harder to do it starting now than it was for me. Poker isn't worth it, don't even begin to think about it.

I'm currently averaging about 12bb/hr or $37/hr at live 1/3NL.

I've been playing hold 'em for years but only started getting serious about it in the last year or so.

I used to try to grind online for convenience (4 tables at once, what's not to like?) but found that I get distracted too easily, get impatient, and try to bluff spots I have no reason to be bluffing.

Playing live is much more engaging to me and I feel like I can read the table easier.

Plus, having a large stack of money on the line ($200-$300 buy-in) makes me play much smarter than when I would buy-in for $10 on a .05/.10 table online.

We see these types of threads start pretty much every day. I don't post much here because I don't have that much to offer in the way of strategies.


What I DO know, though, is that the line of your's that I've quoted above is the most important part of ANY success story. Humility and keeping your ego in check is probably the most important part of any learning process. Thinking you know everything is the first step in never learning another thing.


I know I'm not adding much here, but I wanted to bring attention to how important it is that you have adopted an attitude that can be conducive to actually being successful.

Just tried some playing at partypoker...

NEVER EVER play without BRM /with limits too high

Started with 70 bucks, for fun at first... well, take a look yourself:


http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4...6tqdpg_png.htm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4...6tqdpg_png.htm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4...umo263_jpg.htm






I got stacked with AA by JJ hitting a set for a 100 bucks,
then 99, full house by QQ with a higher full house and then
a combination of some bad luck + bluffs didnt work + tilt :/

I feel so dumb right now

Yeah we know.

This forum is called Beginners Questions, there are other forums to announce 'I degened off my tiny bankroll', like PGC or BBV. Try to keep it relevant.

Alright, sure, sorry!

You sound like you might be looking for a 'get rich quick' scheme
เบอร์รับโชค

The very first thing I would tell new players is to purge all thoughts that poker is easy money from their minds, and here is why:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...39&postcount=3

I get that everyone is trying to keep OP grounded and trying to ward off the idea of getrichthroughpoker but no one really answers the question either. For the people who are making an hourly, how much is that, how long did it take you to get there, etc. However, I do appreciate that this thread might be a common one and the real guys are tired of answering over and over.

It depends.

For me now, I make about 1.5BB/hr playing live 3/6 HE. (Only local game). Have played over 2 million NL hands online as high as 200NL...though I have taken stabs higher. When playing online before Black Friday, I was 4 tabling and "earning" 1.5bb/100 with rakeback. Not good...but anything in the black was better than losing as I was playing as a hobby. 2004-2006 my rate was much higher (Party). I expect it is tougher to breakeven in today's online games.

Local game - in a casino with typical casino rake plus BBJ and dealer tipping? If so, that winrate is really, really good. If you don't mind my asking how many hours a year do you play and how is the competition?

I moved to the middle of nowhere WA state last August. Casino is 18 miles away... I can get 2/5 or 5/5 NL about 2 hours away...but that kinda travel won't work for me. This is only a hobby.

I just started playing LHE a coupla months ago. Different game...to say the least, but I am growing to like it. I play really nitty and if I didn't have evenings where I loosened up due to boredom, my win rate would be higher. I have about 500 hours in so far...so just beginning.

High Hand jackpot is like a GOOD rakeback earn for me. $100 HH per hour with quads paying another $100. BBJ is also a rake...but obviously not something that is hit often enough to count. I do not count either in my earn rate....though I do keep total earn per hour (over 2.3BB/h ) for jollies. Winrate would obviously (to me) not be true earnrate if I hit the BBJ.

Dealer tokes.... well, I tip probably "standard" with nothing for small pots won before the turn, $1 for good pots...and $2 or $3 kill (huge) pots. I don't use beverage service but rather use my casino credits at the deli, gives me a reason to get up and stretch my legs. $6-10 for a HHJ.

Competition....well, I'm winning, so they can't be too tough. Mostly a table of nine will have two donors (play monkeys that play 80% of their hands..and go too far), three high VP$IP guys that have a clue, one or two OMC and maybe one or two like me. 4-6 to every (EVERY) flop.....with very few PFRs (me and a few others). Typically everyone chases...sometimes with odds, sometimes without. So the key is simply to deny the odds if possible...otherwise villains are playing "correctly". Also assume that half the field has 53o, Q5s within their range even as UTG opens. Maverick says "target rich environment".......

I personally started by playing NL2 and NL5 6-max cash and was doing really well. I 9-tabled for 8 hours each day and would make up to $25/day when I was running good and still manage to be on the + side when running bad. So let's say that my daily profit was ~$10 on average.

However, I earned that money after 8 hours of 9-tabling, which is pretty much like having an actual job (a rather bad-paying one). My vision was blurry and my wrists would hurt after each session (even though I took breaks every now and then). Because of that, I lost interest in grinding online poker and now I only play recreationally. I don't know what the numbers would look like if I attempted to play higher limits. It's safe to assume that I wouldn't be making that much more though.

I would recommend you do the same in your first steps. Start from the lowest limits and work your way up. You might want to choose a different type of game of course. The key is to play a lot of tables and put in a lot of hours. That's the easiest and fastest way to find out if you have what it takes.

I personally started by playing NL2 and NL5 6-max cash and was doing really well. I 9-tabled for 8 hours each day and would make up to $25 a day when I was running good and still manage to be on the + side when running bad. So let's say that my daily profit was ~$10 on average.

However, I earned that money after 8 hours of 9-tabling, which is pretty much like having an actual job. My vision was blurry and my wrists would hurt after each session (even though I took breaks every now and then). Because of that, I lost interest in grinding online poker and now I'm only playing recreationally. I don't know what the numbers would look like if I attempted to play higher limits. It's safe to assume that I wouldn't be making that much more though.

I would recommend you do the same in your first steps. Start from the lowest limits and work your way up. You might want to choose a different type of game of course. The key is to play a lot of tables and put in a lot of hours. That's the easiest and fastest way to find out if you have what it takes.

The KEY.... is not to play mega tables if your object is to win maximum money LONG TERM. Learn to play the game first...and THEN add a table, then another after a week/month...then another after a week or month.....rinse and repeat,,,,,

Long term........ your goal may be to play as many tables as you can handle, but as you are first getting started online, playing more than 2-3...maybe 4 (if FR ) ..... is a sure way to lose your BR.