I currently do not have the first clue about pot odds, so Im taking It easy at present, proceeding with caution.

I'd like to get some feedback on this hand, and discuss the pot odds.

I'm following verneers uNL at the moment, so i decide to open up with 4xbb because of the limper.

I dont know why I called the $0.02 on the flop but I was pretty much certain to be getting the right odds to call.

I kind of panicked on the turn trying to calculate pot odds (If im being honest this Is the first time in four years i have stopped for a second and thought about the pot odds) so I folded.

I immediately sit out and check the hand in hem, as I said this is the first time i have even attempted to calculate pot odds, im having a tough time getting my head around the basic math in poker.

when observing the hand in replayer, i belive im getting 4.8/1? 39/8?

so this was a correct fold on pot odds?

please help as Im determined to stop being a degen and study the game.

also would appreciate if you could let me know what you thought of the hand.



Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $0.78
Hero (CO): $1.97
BTN: $3.64
SB: $1.06
BB: $2.46
UTG: $3.20

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with Q K
1 fold, MP calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06, MP calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.25) K A 6 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, BB calls $0.02

Turn: ($0.31) 5 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, BB calls $0.08

River: ($0.55) J (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.16, Hero folds, BB calls $0.16



kindest regards nasher.

yes youre getting the right odds to call the flop, but its also possible that you have the best hand as well, so even if he bet more, you would likely still be correct to call. your odds of hitting a flush on one card is ~4:1 and youre getting 12.5:1 on the flop so you can def call. the turn is also fine given pot odds, and you still may have the best hand, you can also consider when he has a hand like Ax where a Q or K improves your hand as well so you are still getting the proper odds on the turn.

by the river you need to be good about 1 in 5 times to make a call correct. i havent checked the results but im going to assume that when a person bets 3 streets into 2 other opponents at 2nl, second pair is no good so folding is fine

A) So what % of the time does this mean you have to win the hand to break even? (Ignoring implied odds of what you may make on the river)

B) What % of the time will you hit your card on the river

if B>A then call

uhhh wheres B, lol

A) 1 in every 4.8? i dont really know to be honest.

B) i think its 19% chance or rivering any club?

sorry guys i appreciate your help and really want to start nailing this.

nasher, if your pot odds are better then the odds of making the winning hand then you have the correct odds to call. think of it like this to make it easier to understand.

you and I are flipping a coin and you get heads and i get tails. if i win you pay me 1 dollar and if you win i pay you 2 dollars. seeing that its 50/50 on heads or tails you would be correct in making the bet, win or lose because you risk less and win more when you win.

to make it simple, if your pot odds are more then the odds of making your hand then calling is correct (although raising may be better in some situations but you can ask about that as you become more developed as a player so dont concern yourself with that just yet)


edit: to relate the last example to something like a pot, rather then saying you pay me 1$ i pay you 2$ think of it like this. my bet and your bet go into a "pot" so i put in 2 and you put in 1. (it should be clear that either person who wins here is still getting the same ammount if we didnt call this a "pot" because i either still have my 2$ plus your 1$ or vice versa) so in this case your odds are 50-50 or 1:1, and the pot is laying you 2:1, my 2$ to your 1$ so "calling" your 1$ would be mathematically correct

A) Yes you need to win 1 out every 4.8. So that is (1/4.8)*100 = 20.5%
B) There are 46 unknown cards and 9 clubs left (not counting K/Q outs). So (9/46)*100=19.5%

So just on that alone it should be a fold.
But if you include some K and Q outs, and some implied odds of what money you may get on the river it is a call.

What you want to do is simplify it first.

So you're getting 5:1 (there's $20 in pot, you have to call $4 - 20:4 divide each by 4 = 5:1)

Now, you turn this into either a percent or a fraction.

What the 5 parts of the pot is his, 1 is yours if you call (pot + your call = total pot)

So if you call, in the pot, you have 1/6 parts. So you have to win 1/6 times for it to be profitable.

1/6 = 16.67%

I'd leave it in fractions personally right now.

So, now you know you need to win 1/6 times to call on the turn.

Count your outs. You have a flush draw. There's 9 cards that will bring you a flush. You see 4 on the board + 2 in your hand = 6 cards known. There's 52 in the deck. So there's 46 unknown. Out of those 46 cards, 9 give you a flush. So, 9/46 of the cards wins for you.

Simplify this to 9/45 because that = 1/5

Thus, 1/5 times you make the flush = 20%

So since the % of the time you win is bigger than the % of the pot you have to contribute, you call.

Does that help?

To carry on with the simplify it -> always round. Don't get super exact. For this instance, pi can = 3. There's $48 in the pot and you have to call $13. Don't get exact and try to figure out 61/13 - just recognize that 48 = 4/12s. So break it down like that.

Same with the cards - flush is 9/47, but 47 is close to 45 which is 5 9s. So just go with that, and estimate it to be 9/45 which is 1/5.

There's no reason to get more exact than this at the table. You'll just be sitting there trying to figure out exact to 3 decimal places for no reason.

you have all been a great help thankyou. i hope you dont mind me posting similar thread in relation here to pot odds until i have nailed it.

thanks again

nasher

by the way guys..... does anyone know of a place where i can get examples of hands so i can test my self, without playing. if you know what i mean?

im determined to nail this.

sklanksys book no limit theory and practice (???) contains a lot of these type of examples.

Edit: and then implied odds etc for when you nail this part of it.

Anyone mind if I have a go at this particular example?
Let's keep a simple example where you are drawing for flush.

So, after the flop, you are drawing for a flush.
There are 47 cards left and out of those 9 help you to get your flush and 38 don't.
Your odds there for are 38:9 which is 4.22:1. (The advice given of rounding down or up is very correct but let's keep with the accurate for the time being.)

The pot is 0.25 and MP adds another 0.02 to bring it to 0.27.
Hero now needs to call 0.02 to win a pot of 0.27 and that is odds of 13.5:1.

Since 13.5 is much bigger than 4.22 this is worth calling.

Now comes the Turn.
There only 46 cards left of which 9 still help you, 37 don't.
That makes the odds of getting your flush 4.11:1. (They haven't changed much.)

But!
MP now bets 0.08 into a pot of 0.31 making a total of 0.39. Hero needs to call 0.08 to win a pot of 0.39 and that is odds of 4.87:1. It is still worth calling but not nearly as much as it was on the Flop.

For a percentage view, using the rule of 4 and 2 is easiest.
At the flop, the change of drawing a flush by the river is 4 x 9 outs = 36%.
The pot percentage is 0.02/0.27 x 100 = 7.4%.
In other words, you make a 7.4% contribution to the pot but you have a 36% chance of winning, so it is worth it.

On the Turn, the chance of drawing the flush is 2 x 9 = 18%

The pot odds are 0.08/0.39 = 20%.
You are putting in 20% of the pot but you only have an 18% chance to win.
The discrepancy is caused because the rule of 4 and 2 is a little off but it still shows that the pot odds to call are much closer on the Turn than they were on the Flop.

As for the flop, perhaps a c-bet would have been good?