Could someone say to me which one is the best:
HoldemManager 2 or PokerTracker 4 ?
Why ?

Thank you !

Both should be almost identical in terms of features and usability. Since you can download trial versions of both, you should do that and decide which one is more intuitive for you.

PokerTracker4 hasn't been released?

PT4 has a small group of testers, with more beta invites on the way in January. HM2 is, judging from posts I've read, buggy as **** so far.

/thread

Agree. I'm a HEM customer, tried HM2, 20 min later I was insta uninstalling it and getting back to HM1. Currently, HM2 is too bugy and unless you have a state-of-art computer it will eat up all your resources and slow down everything.

So, I hope PT team learns from HEM and do their homework before releasing a commercial version

pretty sure both will be 'same **** different day' therefore its just going to be down to personal preferance

I have both and can say they are very different. I have an interest in HM2 so take my words with a grain of salt. Also, if you think hm2 is very buggy and haven't tried it in the last 10 days you should consider trying it again.

HM2 advantages
---------------
Much faster imports
Faster report loading for non heroes with many hands (20x by my tests for players with 10k+ hands)
vs hero stats
sync hands to the cloud
iphone app
post hands quickly to many sites + twitter
better replayer (equity graph, streaming hand notes)


PT4 advantages
---------------
some cool reports that hm doesn't have (yet)
performs better on crappy computers
knockoff versions of hm apps for free
custom stats (hm2 will have these soon)
proven code base so initial bug count would be less

HM2 went public beta in July, and has been available for commercial sale since the first part of November. Essentially available to the public for six months. PT4 has been in limited public beta and available to only a couple hundred users for less than two weeks. I feel the fact that an HM2 developer felt it was necessary to come into this thread to defend HM2 against PT4 speaks volumes!

I could, as the lead developer of PT4, give you a big list of reasons as to why I feel PT4 is a better choice than HM2, but I won't. Instead, I'll just give you some quotes from users who have no vested interest in either company.

I'll start off with my favorite, which came from someone who was very critical of some of the decisions we announced regarding the software before he was able to try it.

I could go on and on. Check out the Coming Soon: PT4 thread here in the 2+2's software forum and the threads on our own forum and our Facebook and Twitter feedback. The feedback so far on PT4 has been overwhelmingly positive. Feel free to check out the Holdem Manager Support thread here on 2+2 to see what people are saying about HM2.

I would recommend waiting at the very least until PT4 is in full public beta, which we anticipate happening sometime in January. Then you can try both and make up your mind then. Although waiting until PT4 is out of beta and deemed high enough quality to be used by everyone would be a better choice, as the beta will likely still have some issues we'll need to resolve.

Right, so since it was put on sale, as a release version, for $$, people who paid for it should download a new version of it every few days until eventually they get one that works ?

Don't get me wrong, I am a HM1 user, and I think it's a fine product. HM2 promised much, but it has been a very mismanaged rollout.

FYP

What does it say that a PT4 developer (the lead one too!) felt it was necessary to come into this thread to defend PT4 ???

(I am not a user of either program)

PT4 is better than HM2 imo. I've used both and HM2 is just not good at the moment. PT4 seems to just look a lot more professional and clean cut, whilst HM2 looks likes its younger brother. Miles behind

I couldn't get HEM2 to work..

but my favorite feature from PT4 that affects how I play, is NoteTracker. I can visually see which hands they open from EP/MP/LP.. I don't get just 4%.. and 4% could be different.. some ppl 3bet 99, or instead they 3bet AQo, it just depends.

NoteTracker is super awesome.

Nothing I posted was to defend anything. I made a very balanced post showing benefits of both. I saw this thread which had no good info in it and wanted to contribute as 90% of my 2+2 posts are not related to HEM. Did you miss the part where I mentioned advantages of pt4 over hm2?

No, I did not miss it. In fact, I noticed many of the advantages that PT4 has over HM2 missing from your list. Either you have not used PT4 enough to be aware of these advantages, or you purposely omitted them. Either reason indicates that you should not be making such a comparison post to begin with. The fact is that anyone with a vested interest in either company will be biased. That's why I did not make a list of the advantages you omitted from your list.

PT4 will be in beta for a while and even after that will have a free trial period that anyone can take advantage of. I highly recommend everyone try the trials of each software and use their first hand experience to make their decision. There are already many opinions that have been offered on 2+2 and other venues that people can read.

Here are two threads from 2+2:

Holdem Manager Support

Coming Soon: PokerTracker 4

I would recommend starting with the posts from about two weeks ago. That will give you an indication of the current state of each.

As individuals with vested interests and obvious bias, I suggest that we bow out of this thread and let actual users participate.

1. HEM1 had the option to build custom reports or to use custom reports built by someone else if you don't know MySQL and xml.

For example you could build a custom report to show your hands/winnings by tourney M (green/yellow/red/gray) or any kind of custom report you want to have.

2. HEM1 has/had custom stats you could use in order to analyze better your play. Also, you could use stats made by someone else if you don't know MySQL and xml.
Also, it has/had a lot of built in stats like you see in this image:


3. HEM1 has/had (custom) filters.


4. HEM2 has a better replayer, it shows real time hand EV/equity, it can replay multiple hand at a time and even one session, it has a nice interface.

5. HEM2 has a more beautiful interface and the possibility to show to you multiple kind of graphs.

Does PT4 have all of these ?

I think the answer is NO, so this is why I think a future working HEM2 would be much better than PT4. Am I right ?

Thank you !

No, you're not. Define better?

In fact, it sounds like you haven't even seen Poker Tracker 3, seeing as you're now comparing HEM 1 to an as yet mostly unseen PT4.

You asked the question (about HEM2), now you're telling us which is better based on pure speculation?

_____________

This thread had potential with both developers in it, to be a perfect point of reference for this never-ending question in BQ, albeit about the newer version.

Although the answer has already been provided.

I agree with the bee, 100% (!)

I am looking to buy either HM2 or PT4 b4 2012 and not sure which one i should choose. PT4 is not out yet so that's not great, HM2 has a lot of bugs as plenty of people are saying, so i don't know what to do. I downloaded HM2 free trial and it looks fine to me right now but i don't want to have too many problems with it later. PT3 just looks a lot more complicated tbh, i could be wrong though, and i really don't want to dedicate hours on figuring out how to do things. I am lazy when it comes to these things and just want to play poker. I need HUD, graphs to see session results with different timespan/game options and ability to analyze my game, and that's about it. I really can not be bothered downloading both of them , setting them up and trying them out to decide which to buy. I recently bought table ninja and i am happy with it so far, it was easy to set up. BTW, i play PLO.

If I was you I would get HM1 or PT3. Both of them work fine right out of the box for what you want.

Make sure you get the omaha add-on though, as both of them are for holdem only by default.

I made a short list outlining some of the philosophical differences in the two applications. You are projecting your inability to have even a small amount of objectiveness on me here. For example, I also forgot to put the hm2 street-by-street HUD on that list.

I think it would be very good if you listed a few items that I missed. That way when people load up the trials they know what to look for. There's no reason this needs to immediately devolve into a rancorous exchange.

The major problems HM2 had can be broken down into two categories:

-migrating from HM1. For example, hand histories got missed, configs got corrupted. I am not trying to make any excuse for this but to the best of my knowledge it's resolved now.
-multi tabling performance. Still a work in progress. I wouldn't try to 24 table using HM2 without a very good computer. I know this is a top priority right now though.

^i noticed street by street HUD stats and i think they are good, but, (derailing thread a bit) for example i spent 2 hours yday thinking about every stat offered in Hm2 and came up with a list of 17, which i then started narrowing down (because its too much for me to handle multitabling atm) , and finally ended up with 5 LOL. VPIP,PFR,3BET%,PAF,WinSD%. Would you say that these are the broadest but most representative stats to have to start with, i do want to add stats like CBET-FOLD, CBET-RAISE, FOLD TO 3BET, and many others but they seem overwhelming to analyze for a beginner user.

I am 9tabling max so i guess i should be fine.

I am not that impressed with HM2's buggyness at the moment, but I'm not purchasing PT4 unless they can convince me that PT3 just a huge mistake and that they have learned. HM was so much better than PT3 that I'm going to give the HM crew a long benefit of the doubt before I spend time investigating PT4.

This means, I am right:
An working version (ZERO bugs) of HEM2 would be much better to buy than PT3 or PT4. Right ?

No. Again.

Go and re-read the very first answer to your question.

Where are they selling HM1? I only have the option of buying HM2