hi 2p2 folks,

im not sure if this is the right section to put this but i have a question regarding hand ranges that maybe someone here can help?

ive recently been grinding $7 1-table sng turbos and have been reviewing hands using sng wizard as well as playing with the quiz on it.

sng wizard does tell me whether its optimal to push or fold however, when trying to understand the dynamics to the reason for pushing and folding it confuses me a bit.

with hand ranges, does anyone have a way of remembering certain hands and their relative position in the hand range hierarchy?

e.g. i have A9o, and i want to know what % this hand is, i.e. top 14% of hands?
i do use pokerstove for this but was wondering if there are any mental patterns or tricks to remembering where a certain hand is in the top % of hands?

everyone knows that shoving premiums is usually correct however its the mid rank hands that cause me confusion such as Kjo, KTs, Q8s, J9s etc.

the obvious way to remember this to to just stove it and remember it all manually, but was wondering if anyone knows of a better way?

hope i explained it clear here, i do hope someone can help!

thanks in advance!

The only thing i can think of is if you print a hand chart out and put it up beside your screen, after long enough looking at it it might just start to stick in your mind.

^^ this, but... try to estimate it first without looking at the chart, then look at the chart to see if you're right - you'll learn a lot faster that way and won't need the chart as a permanent crutch.

thanks for that, would you happen to know of a hand chart out there that i can use that shows the particular hand and where it is in the % of top hands?

thanks, i think that is a great idea and perfect for remembering the ranges, cheers!

http://pokeranon.files.wordpress.com...ndom_hands.jpg

hi nismo,

thanks for that link although that link shows odds of winning against 1,2,3,4 players so its an equity hand chart whereas the chart i would look for is one that answers the question "q6s in in the top ....% of hands".

i wonder if there is something like that out there? its just that when comparing hand ranges to a villains, if you know that the villain is calling with top 15% of hands, should i shove with Kts? without knowing where KTs is in the top % of ranges, i dont know whether i compare favourably or not?

hope this makes sense!
failing that, i could draw an excel sheet i suppose with each individual hand and its % in top hands but was wondering if this sort of thing already exists, lol!

Sorry i had a look around and cant find anything, as you say you can always take the time to draw one up yourself

thanks for your help and effort i distinctly remember that maybe HEM has something like that, i will go away and take a look and maybe post something here as it might benefit other beginners
cheers!

The Nash equilibrium charts give a good indication of strength when considering push/fold. In fact, I think SitnGo Wizard probably uses those charts to calculate the optimal play.
http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/hune.html

The numbers in the chart indicate how many big blinds you need for the shove/call to be profitable in the long run. You'll notice that all Broadways are strong enough to shove once you have less than 20bbs.

awesome stuff artysmokes, being fairly new in this hand range thing, what is nash's charts aiming to do? what is the purpose of nash?

from the charts it seems that its purpose is to determine how many bb makes pushing profitable in a heads up situ, but what of against multiple opponents?

hi all,

ive manually created a table of hands in the top% of hands to easily identify the hand and where it falls in the top % of hands since i cant seem to find anything similar out there on the net for my easy reference, hopefully it will help those that want to know whether Q7o is in the top x% of hands and help with push/fold decisions.

the trouble is, i dunno how to add the image onto here, if i just paste the data, it comes up with dodgy formatting :S

Do you know how to do a screen print?

ive done a screen print, saved the jpeg image but when i try to insert the image here, rather than asking me to upload it, it asks for a website url, in which case im assuming that i need to upload it to some file store online then link to it here?

thats just a little bit long lol

Yeah dude you will need a photobucket or imageshack account

thought as much, i'll have to see a bit later to get these accounts as i cant do it now.

Position is key to pushing....don't forget the reads

That one's easy. Q7 is called "Computer hand", because on poker simulations on early IBM mainframes, it was calculated that Q7o breaks even against the entire range of hands.
Any hand that is clearly stronger than Q7o is in the top 50% of hands. Anything worse than Q7o will be an underdog heads up against a random hand.

lol, thanks for that, yeah i agree with positioning.

i jus q7o as an example hand, didnt realise it was the "computer hand" lol

is that right tho? worse than q7o is worse in HU?

surely q7o vs q2o is favourite in HU?

Q7o, by coincidence, happens to be slap bang in the middle of all hands - half are better, half are worse.

Kudos to arty for recognising it.

Q2o is in the worse half.

Note this ranking is according to how well they run out against each other (ie, you see all 5 board cards) - not how well they play street by street.

Here's one ranking for Holdem, based on the listing found on the ProPokerTools website.



As for learning them, I'm guessing index cards, with the hands on one side, and rankings on the reverse might be one thing you could use.

And I think I did the punch cards for that first simulation

Thanks for reminding me about that project Arty!

DD is back yay!

thats pretty awesome diamondDog, thanks so much for that!

lots of great information on this thread and I thank who contributed. Now time to learn it! :]

not before me :P