I have just recently gotten seriously into poker and I’m mostly playing the Bovada 18k guaranteed nightly tournaments along with some zone. I’m completely lost. I don’t think(?) I’m playing too many hands. It seems I almost never flop top pair and when I do everybody folds and all I win are the blinds. All the advice I see is based on the idea that people are logical, but that doesn’t seem to be the case in these tournaments or cash games. At least one person at the table plays any two cards and will chase any draw regardless of pot odds. HELP!

this is all standard

online poker is formulaic and monotonous, most people are filling their screen with tables and not even paying much attention to any particular table so nobody is interested in playing hands for the sake of entertainment like they do in live games and everyone is 10x tighter than the live poker you are likely
used to

and then you also get the randos playing any two cards, they usually don't last very long though

Well, if you're not playing many hands and when you do bet only on top pair or better...don't you think people will twig to the fact that you're only betting with good holdings - and consequently make snug folds?

Since everyone is making the same amount of good hands on average that should tell you that your cards aren't the thing that distinguishes a good player from a bad one.

Could you expound on that? It sounds like you’re saying I should play any two cards?

No. There is a (vast) middle ground between playing only the obvious cards and playing any two cards.

If you play any two cards you'll be in every hand and other players will quickly realize that you're almost always holding crappy hands (and will make you pay by just bluffing you out of every pot)

If you play only premium hands from first position or only 3-bet with AA or KK and only bet after the flop when you're confident you have the best hand then you're transparent.

Poker is about manipulating what the other guy thinks you have - not what you actually have. The "AA against KK coolers" are just a zero sum game passing around chips, because you'll have as many times the AA as they do. The real win rate comes from making them either overplay their hand against your better one; catching their bluffs; making them fold a hand better than yours; or simply saving money by folding early when the situation is unfavorable.

Pretty sure you know that’s what I was asking originally. How can I better learn, “manipulation,” as you call it?

You're contradicting yourself.

What are you even asking?

I’m not contradicting myself. I’m saying that I suck against both tight and loose players. I just ran through $200 in about an hour playing zone and I absolutely don’t think I play too many hands. I just don’t get this game at all.

What stakes are you playing?

And do you ever play cash games that are not zone?

I play 1/2 no limit and have played cash in the past but not recently. I also play small entry tournaments.

Think about how others perceive you and then act in an opposite manner.

E.g.:
Against a tight player who folds too often to you because he thinks you always have it? Bluff more often. Since that hand isn't going to showdown most of the time in this scenario: Does it matter what you're holding?

Against a loose player who thinks you fold too often to aggression and will bomb every time you check? Wait for a good hand and let them punt off their stack to you.

In each case don't do it 100% of the time because if someone can read you then they can also read you when you do the exact opposite.

Switch it up. After you played a while in one way they will reassess your strategy - and that is when you must change your behavior.

Use your image: If you're card dead for 2 hours then you'll likely have a tight image and might be able to start bluffing.

Create an image by what you show at showdown. If you're a tight player you may want to choose a cheap showdown to show total garbage.

Be aware of your actions. Do you always raise with premium hands but not middle pair or suited connectors? Easy to read. Break up the formula a little (don't just fall into the opposite rut)

If everything fails: look to what they are doing against you. If you're having a hard time against their style then they are the ones you should emulate.

Just to be clear, online 1/2 (200NL) has a $200 buyin. .01/.02 online (2NL) is a $2 buyin.


If if if if you are truly playing 1/2 online..... you are not remotely a beginner player and need to find another area of 2+2 for advice. Look in the No Limit Hold'em tab at the left.

Your going to lose a ton of money in this game if ya wanna get to the top. You gotta win it over time if you even win at all.

Playing the tournaments your going to lose a ton. Sometimes you might go on a run and just win. Its a tough gig. Not many can survive.

Personally I would think bigger and dream bigger than where your looking at the moment. By all means lay that brick off the wall your going to build meaning play that $5 tournament or whatever the stakes but aim to be a winner. That means being number 1.

Whats your goal in poker? If its just to make a few dollars and earn a living there's better ways of doing it. If its to be the best in that field then go ahead and play. Like Phil Ivey said he really tried like really tried when he was playing poker. Your going to have to do that in order to succeed.

He can be a beginner playing in stakes he has no business being in. He lost $200, I don’t think he’s playing 2NL.

OP, the best advice anyone here can give you is to play lower stakes until you understand the game better. If you have the money for it, subscribe to a site like Run it Once or Upswing Poker. I can personally vouch for Upswing, it took me from a breakeven microstakes reg to a solid winner at 200NL.

I recommend you a) drop down in stakes; b) skip zone and go to tables where you see the same players for awhile; and c) read some strategy books or articles, watch videos, etc.

At 1/2 online, you are mostly playing against people who have successfully navigated their way up from smaller stakes. The unsuccessful people from lower stakes have either stayed at lower stakes, or lost their money and quit. 1/2 might be the lowest stake you'll find in a casino, but it can be about the 6th or 7th level online (depends on the site). You can't expect to jump into the pool with a bunch of good and experienced players and expect to be a winner.

Here you say that you are completely lost, and every time you hit top pair you bet and everyone folds. In your other thread you say that you only raise preflop with top 3 hands, and you never bet if you don't hit top pair or better. In the other thread, people are telling you that your strategy will be a losing one, and here you are telling us that your strategy is a losing one. It might be time to change your strategy, but at a much lower stake where you can absorb losses more easily while you learn and improve.