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Old 07-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #1
DalTXColtsFan1
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Paying attention when multitabling

One thing I've noticed (ldo) is how much easier it is to observe villains with specific patterns when I single-table vs. when I multi-table, for example:

- which are the villains who are limping almost every hand but then fold to a pre-flop raise
- which villains are limp almost every hand, calling pre-flop raises but then folding to c-bets almost every time
- which villains are folding to flop raises vs. calling them
- when villains are calling c-bets what are they calling with
- are they calling a flop bet then folding to a turn bet
- what are they stacking off with (it can be very profitable to know a villain is willing to stack off with top pair!)
- villains who are spewtarding (these extremely profitable villains are often easy to miss if you're just folding a lot pre and moving onto the next table)
- how tight are the tables playing in general, i.e. can you raise with hands in middle or early position that are slightly less strong than what you'd normally raise with because the entire table has been playing nitty?

(what are some other villain habits that are good to observe that don't necessarily show up in a HUD?)

To those of you who play 4, 8, 12 tables, are you still able to observe particularly profitable villain situations that don't necessarily show up in a HUD?

Is there value to be gained from playing less tables and paying better attention at stakes, say, 25NL and below?
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #2
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Any habit will show up in a hud stat . You just need to know what hud stat to look at . PT4 has a really cool feature that automatically takes notes on villians . like " 4 bet range : aq+ , 99+ 8 samples " . Thats the tracker I have been using for the last few months and its pretty sick .

Yes there is value to be gained by playing less tables . You will sharpen your game
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:45 AM   #3
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Dude, seriously, any chance you could change your avatar so that it ONLY shows the girl They must be in separate rooms because I doubt she'd be sitting there eating popcorn and just watching that

Thanks for the advice.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:22 AM   #4
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

The girl is WhyDoweFall . The avatar was made by Bumblebee99 and PapaPyrite . It's nevar getting changed
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:41 PM   #5
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Originally Posted by Leroy_Jenkins45 View Post
Yes there is value to be gained by playing less tables . You will sharpen your game
You know you are playing too many tables (as a beginner) when you find yourself just clicking buttons......THEN look at the stats and say to yourself "I shoulda folded there to that NIT" or "Crap, I just folded on the button with two NITS in the blinds" [[[play ATC is profitable in that spot]]].

Too many tables = autopilot

Don't autopilot before you get your pilot's license.

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The girl is WhyDoweFall . The avatar was made by Bumblebee99 and PapaPyrite . It's nevar getting changed
....and she probably is in the same room..... ba da BOOM!
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:56 PM   #6
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan1 View Post
One thing I've noticed (ldo) is how much easier it is to observe villains with specific patterns when I single-table vs. when I multi-table, for example:

- which are the villains who are limping almost every hand but then fold to a pre-flop raise
VPIP-PFR, limp-call
- which villains are limp almost every hand, calling pre-flop raises but then folding to c-bets almost every time
VPIP-PFR, limp-call, fold to cbet
- which villains are folding to flop raises vs. calling them
Fold to flop raise
- when villains are calling c-bets what are they calling with
Fold to flop cbet, raise flop cbet, call flop cbet, fold to turn cbet
- are they calling a flop bet then folding to a turn bet
Fold to flop bet, fold to turn bet
- what are they stacking off with (it can be very profitable to know a villain is willing to stack off with top pair!)
WTSD, W$SD
- villains who are spewtarding (these extremely profitable villains are often easy to miss if you're just folding a lot pre and moving onto the next table)
VPIP, PFR, AFq, AF, WTSD
- how tight are the tables playing in general, i.e. can you raise with hands in middle or early position that are slightly less strong than what you'd normally raise with because the entire table has been playing nitty?
Average table VPIP

(what are some other villain habits that are good to observe that don't necessarily show up in a HUD?)

To those of you who play 4, 8, 12 tables, are you still able to observe particularly profitable villain situations that don't necessarily show up in a HUD?

Is there value to be gained from playing less tables and paying better attention at stakes, say, 25NL and below?
HUD stats which give good ideas of the above. The only habit which HUDs really don't show is bet sizing and hence most of my notes are on bet sizing.

The value to be gained at the micros is mostly improving your poker ability.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:57 PM   #7
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

I've never gone beyond 5 tables, and do best with only 2 or 3, because I like having time to analyse every hand, but I'm also a fan of HUD pop-ups, using stats like "limp fold", "check-raise as PFR", "fold to 3-bet" very often.
There are stats for all the things you mentioned above. If you plan to keep playing poker at anything above 2NL and would like to increase the number of tables you play, then NoteCaddy looks the business, as it will create automatic notes for a range of behaviours. With the trial version in HM2, it automatically creates notes for open limping ranges and provides a basic description of how a player tends to play draws. e.g. "Aggressive with nut flush draw (4/5 80%)" indicates a player that rarely just calls when he's drawing to the nuts. With downloadable note caddy badges, it should be really easy to judge someone's tendencies really quickly.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:00 PM   #8
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

the problem with playing 3 tables is that it takes you longer to have a decent sample size.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

what about nanonoko.. that dude who plays 20 some tables at a time. He has to be on autopilot right?? AK, JJ + raise.. everything else fold.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #10
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

no.

but that doesn't happen overnight. it's a skill you have to develop. The first time you try to play 4 tables it seems like you'll never be able to keep up, but after sometime you can play 12, etc.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #11
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Nanonoko is a very very LAGGY reg relatively speaking... lol AK JJ+? Are you insane? Think A2s+ 22+ 56s+ from UTG.

Maybe not, idk.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:16 AM   #12
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

I use to play 8, 10, 12 and sometimes 14 tables because i figured, the more tables = more hands = more money.
Then i dropped down a few tables when i felt my brain was being over-loaded with information.

I've realised i'm most profitable with 4-6 tables. My bb/100 win rate rapidly increased and i feel like i'm a much better poker player.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:35 AM   #13
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Nanonoko is ****ing insane. Seriously, I don't envy him one bit, that sort of grind must be so tiring.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:38 AM   #14
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpelta1 View Post
what about nanonoko.. that dude who plays 20 some tables at a time. He has to be on autopilot right?? AK, JJ + raise.. everything else fold.
I'm sure he is on autopilot, it's just that his autopilot is better than everyone else's autopilot.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:37 PM   #15
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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I'm sure he is on autopilot, it's just that his autopilot is better than everyone else's autopilot.
Indeed. Some people are just quicker/better at taking in the information available to them and then using it correctly.
If you know your HUD inside out, and have standard/profitable ways of using it, then it's just a matter of making the decisions quickly and clicking those buttons. I'm pretty rubbish at video games, but some people can flawlessly execute every combo in Street Fighter with their eyes shut. Nanonoko would probably be great at Street Fighter if he worked on that.
If your hand-eye-brain co-ordination is better than average, then you can probably mass table successfully. If you're just like me (a klutz) you can practice more, or just stick with the number of tables you're comfortable with.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #16
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Some people are just quicker/better at taking in the information available to them and then using it correctly.
No, it just takes some time and practice just like everything else. Nanonoko or whatever, didn't just start with 24 tables at 400nl.

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Nanonoko would probably be great at Street Fighter if he worked on that.
He already competes in street fighter.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:52 PM   #17
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Originally Posted by dpelta1 View Post
what about nanonoko.. that dude who plays 20 some tables at a time. He has to be on autopilot right?? AK, JJ + raise.. everything else fold.
No, but he probably uses auto timebank and is a very very experienced player with tens of millions of hands played so he's used to having 5 or 10 hands going on in his head at once.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:16 PM   #18
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

The best thing you can do for your game OP is playing less tables. Once you've maximized your win rate so to speak (never completely possible) you can add a table. I recently backed way off on volume and am just playing a couple tables at a time. I'm also playing less and studying more. The results have been stunning. Eventually, I'll add the volume back in, but for now, I'm working on making good decisions and shoring up my game, which had slipped considerably. Would you rather play 1,000 hands 10BB/100 or 5,000 hands at break even?

Also, and this is maybe even more important. Don't do anything else while you play. Turn off the TV. Shut down the web browser. Even if it is 2+2. GIve the game your undivided attention. It's a huge difference.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:36 PM   #19
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Lol you think nano can beat the games he plays playing JJ+ only. He is a very good aggro reg in those games not a 24table nit
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:56 PM   #20
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
Lol you think nano can beat the games he plays playing JJ+ only. He is a very good aggro reg in those games not a 24table nit
Wait, you mean you can't make 8bb/100 at 500NL just by nitting it up?
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:56 AM   #21
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy_Jenkins45 View Post
Any habit will show up in a hud stat . You just need to know what hud stat to look at . PT4 has a really cool feature that automatically takes notes on villians . like " 4 bet range : aq+ , 99+ 8 samples " . Thats the tracker I have been using for the last few months and its pretty sick .

Yes there is value to be gained by playing less tables . You will sharpen your game
i think these pt4 auto notes are pretty useless, you dont know under which circumstances the notes where made and they can easily lead to wrong assumptions. Maybe your opponent did just 4bet get it in with 88/AQ against a 60/60 aggrofish. Its basically a bad clone of HEM notecaddy.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:17 AM   #22
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
The best thing you can do for your game OP is playing less tables. Once you've maximized your win rate so to speak (never completely possible) you can add a table. I recently backed way off on volume and am just playing a couple tables at a time. I'm also playing less and studying more. The results have been stunning. Eventually, I'll add the volume back in, but for now, I'm working on making good decisions and shoring up my game, which had slipped considerably. Would you rather play 1,000 hands 10BB/100 or 5,000 hands at break even?

Also, and this is maybe even more important. Don't do anything else while you play. Turn off the TV. Shut down the web browser. Even if it is 2+2. GIve the game your undivided attention. It's a huge difference.
Said it in a nutshell.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:44 PM   #23
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Re: Paying attention when multitabling

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Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
Lol you think nano can beat the games he plays playing JJ+ only. He is a very good aggro reg in those games not a 24table nit

do you have any stats on his aggression??
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