Someone correct me if i'm wrong please. My understanding of EV is such
Ev= outs x bets in the pot + "unouts" x (-how many bets it is to me) is this a correct way to calculate EV in bets? or am i just looking for a positive or neg number and basing the correct move off that. And also when in limit holdem and the bets double lets say from the flop to the turn does the bets in the pot before get cut in half?

It depends how many other people are in the hand with you and whether you expect them to call your bet/raise. Everything else being equal, at any point in the hand when you have an edge, you want to push that edge by getting money in the pot.

If you have 25% equity in the pot and there are 2 other players in the hand, you don't want to bet or raise based on this theory. That's because you'll win the pot at showdown 25% of the time, but you'll be putting in 33% of the chips in this betting round.

On the other hand, if you have 25% equity in the pot and there are six other players in the hand, you can bet or raise profitably if your expect at least four of them to call. In this case, you'd be putting in 1/6 or 1/5 of the chips but will win the pot 25% of the time.

Two things to keep in mind. First, this question is different than whether you have the odds to call a bet or raise. That's a question of pot odds, where you compare your odds of winning to how the amount you need to call relates to the pot size. To decide whether you can profitably bet or raise, you're comparing your odds of winning to the number of players you anticipate will call your bet or raise.

Second, you don't automatically bet or raise even if you have the equity to do so. Your bet might only be called by one other person, for example. Or you might be in poor position relative to a bettor/raiser on the previous round.

You're just looking for a positive number imo. +EV is +EV. EV is rarely going to come out in whole bets, anyway. It's going to be some portion of a bet.

One thing, though. This calculation ignores implied odds. To know your EV, you'll want to know how much you'll actually win, not just what's in the pot. So if you know that you'll win another 2 bets, those go in the first part of the calculation as well. The way you've formulated it is the most conservative, because obviously you'll surely win whatever is already in the pot but cannot be sure villains will make the pot larger.

That's one way to do it. You have to be comparing everything in terms of the proper bet size. I just convert everything to BBs, since determining EV presumes you're showing the hand down on the river.

[QUOTE=MoonOrb;4775043]So if you know that you'll win another 2 bets, those go in the first part of the calculation as well. The way you've formulated it is the most conservative, because obviously you'll surely win whatever is already in the pot but cannot be sure villains will make the pot larger.QUOTE]
You have answered many of my questions\, thank you, however, another one come up. By adding only the first part of the calculations (pot size) don't you then need to concider the future bets you need to put in as well? (-how much it is to you)

That's not entirelly accurate: if some of them fold, your equity typically increases. The precise condition would be something like:

raising will have been profitable if your equity after the betting round will be larger than the percentage of the money that went into the pot on that bettin round that came from you

lulz

Of course, if your equity surpasses the percentage that you are from the remaining players, then your equity after the betting round will always surpass the percentage of the money that went into the pot on that bettin round that came from you, no matter how many people call

please, what does tl;dr mean?

thanks

tl;dr = too long; didn't read

ahhhhhhhhhhh

thank you!

My question is regarding implied odds. If you add to one end of the equation don't you then need to add to the other in order to be accurate? example (outs X bets) + ( unouts X -how much to call, in terms of bets)
But implied odds only adds to the bets, but not how much is it to call them.

If I'm reading you right, that's called reverse implied odds, and you do need to take them into account. They typically don't matter to situations where you are drawing (hence using implied odds) though. For an example, if you are drawing to the nut flush, then when you miss you will simply not call a bet, thus your opponent has no implied odds (i.e you don't have reverse implied odds). They usually matter when you have a made but weak hand, and your opponent is drawing out on you, or when you are drawing to a strong hand but may still lose and end up paying off the opponent.

1) Is a value bet, a bet you make while you have a made hand, and other wise that bet would be a bluff/semi-bluff when you don't have a made hand?

2) What is short stacking? I know what play with a short stack is, but I've been reading where people are upset and want Full Tilt (for example), to do away with people who are short stacking. Is this some thing that is being done intentionally?

3) Setmining- is this just waiting to see th flop to see if you hit a set with your pair and then folding if you don't?

1. Value Bets are bets are intended to build the pot, by getting your villain to call. Is done with what you feel is the better hand.

2. Short Stacking is playing with a smaller stack (I consider <60BBs). Yes, it's being done intentionally, but I don't think everyone that does it knows it's bad. It's very annoying for people who are playing poker all five streets rather than playing just the flop or preflop. IMO they should make tables that incorporate a high minimum BI, and require you to rebuy if you drop below a certain point. Just my 2 cents, though.

3. Yes.

Technically, a value bet is any bet where you are likely to have the best hand. However, when people are talking about value betting, they're usually talking about a bet where you have a good hand that is likely ahead but is not really a strong hand compared to the board. For example, if you bet with 66 of a board of 278. There are a bunch of hands that beat you (top pair, overpairs) but there's also a good chance that the flop missed everyone and you have the best hand.

Short stacking is exactly what the name says. Most pro short stackers buy in for 20BB and leave as soon as they double up. However, good short stackers are a very small minority at 100NL and below. Most are horrible and are essentially free money. At mid and high stakes there are a number of very good, pro short stackers who are very difficult to play against.

I think you can consider a value bet to be any bet when you have more than your fair share of equity in a hand. If you are on the flop and have a draw to the nut flush against 4 opponents, that could be a value bet because your hand will come in about 1/3 of the time. It obviously includes those times you have the best hand when you hope to be called by worse hands.

Yes, that's my understanding of setmining.

Isn't opponent's willingness to call you with worse also a condition?

I think for most people who do it, it actually is "good". They would lose more money deepstacked. Of course, they probably don't even thinkof it as that, just try to fight against variance.

Bad for deep stacks is what I meant.

I play on PS and i play in the 1500T fake money. Im in the tourney getting my chip stack up there. Im in the top 10 or so when i start to go card dead. The blinds and antes are going up and by the time i get cards to really play. The bet i make doesnt really do much for me. Do i need to start playing more range of cards later in the tourney?

Yeah, it's always good to steal every once in awhile with marginal hands when it's folded to you on the button or in the cut off.

Another question How do i get money on to some of the sites? None of my bank cards will go through? I tried a visa gift card and that was a no go also? I really want to get money on to a site, cus im sick of playing in fake money tourney's were people just dont care and play dumb. Im not trying to complain but its probably not the first time someone has said this before.

I would like to start using a HUD along with poker analysis software. I play 3 6 and 5 10 limit exclusively online. What's the best software to use starting out? hold em manager, poker tracker etc.?

Or to put the question another way, what is the most user friendly HUD and analysis software for a beginner who is just getting their head around things like WTSD, VPIP, AF etc.?

Wow you play 3/6 and don't have a HUD? :O

I haven't used much of HEM, but it seemed like it was good. I personally chose to get PT3 because if it has any problems there's a lot more people that have it than HEM. I love PT3, it helps substantially. I definitely suggest getting it, especially for a high roller like yourself. :P

I don't know how much it helps in limit, but I'm sure it does.

Meh, but then you start to quibble abou semantics as to whether you're betting for value or to protect the hand. ie; if you bet with 44 on a board of 223, is that a value bet, or are you betting so overcards don't get a free chance to hit a bigger pair? Or both?

Contact the site you're trying to deposit on. They'll be able to outline the best ways to deposit.

Basically your choice is PT2, PT3 or HEM.

By most accounts, HEM is the best software right now, however once PT3 has all the kinks ironed out it should be better. You can download fully usable demos. Just give them a test drive. As far as "user friendly" it doesn't really make a difference.

Does anyone have a chart or anything that translates VPIP into actual hand ranges? I saw one online but it was pretty confusing and lacking

I have 2 dumb questions.

1. I'm struggling with pot/implied odds. I get the concept and can work out my outs and the pot odds after the flop (outs x 4 on the turn: outs x 2 on the river), but what to do with this information? Is there a link to some info on this site for a math Rtard?

2 I am concerned about the rake. I was planning on depositing $100 to Poker Stars, but am worried about the rake. Full Tilt is worse than PS I heard. I would like to play sng's mostly. Would PS be better than FT? Does the rake come out of the pot as you win it or does it come out of your account?

Decide whether to call or fold or raise.

That's it.

ie: You have a draw, you're sure villain has a decent hand and he's not folding (ie: he's not going to fold if you raise). Do you fold? Do you call? Do you raise?

All comes down to your pot odds, implied odds and how many outs you have.

Full Tilt is double the rake at 10NL cash. Pretty sure FTP and Stars are comparable otherwise.

The way rake works in tournaments is you pay a fee when you buy-in. For example, if you play a $10+1 SNG, the cost to you is $11. The site keeps $1, $10 goes into the prize pool. If it's a 9 player SNG, the prize pool is $90 (the house gets $9 total, $1 from each player).

There's no avoiding the rake, it's just a fact of life. That's how the site makes money.