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** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

08-11-2012 , 10:50 PM
@ Dodevu, the first thing that jumps out is a complete lack of positional awareness.
You have about 22% VPIP in every seat.
Have you not found your decisions with marginal hands (e.g. KJ, ATs) are more difficult when you're in early position? It's much easier to make post-flop decisions, while also controlling the pot size, when you don't have to act first. Normally, the cutoff and button are our most profitable seats, partly because of positional advantage and partly because we can play a wider range of hands profitably in LP. Over your smallish sample, the winrates are a bit out of whack. This may change in the long run, and you could find that you don't make half as much money UTG.

In common with many posters here, the gap between PFR and VPIP in the blinds is too high. You're calling too often in the worst possible seats. Try folding a few more hands that don't play well oop. (Hands like A9, KJ, 78s). Meanwhile, you should steal more often when in LP. Your VPIP on the button should be around 30% or higher.

Your WTSD is quite high. It's impossible to know the cause, as you've not posted post-flop stats for c-bet, aggression etc. Your W$SD is actually quite high, so you might be missing some value when you have the best hand and only go for 2 streets of betting instead of 3, or you make small bets that get callers on draws.

Nevertheless, your winrate is impressive. I hope for your sake it's not just a short-term heater.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-12-2012 , 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
@ Dodevu, the first thing that jumps out is a complete lack of positional awareness.
You have about 22% VPIP in every seat.
Have you not found your decisions with marginal hands (e.g. KJ, ATs) are more difficult when you're in early position? It's much easier to make post-flop decisions, while also controlling the pot size, when you don't have to act first. Normally, the cutoff and button are our most profitable seats, partly because of positional advantage and partly because we can play a wider range of hands profitably in LP. Over your smallish sample, the winrates are a bit out of whack. This may change in the long run, and you could find that you don't make half as much money UTG.

In common with many posters here, the gap between PFR and VPIP in the blinds is too high. You're calling too often in the worst possible seats. Try folding a few more hands that don't play well oop. (Hands like A9, KJ, 78s). Meanwhile, you should steal more often when in LP. Your VPIP on the button should be around 30% or higher.

Your WTSD is quite high. It's impossible to know the cause, as you've not posted post-flop stats for c-bet, aggression etc. Your W$SD is actually quite high, so you might be missing some value when you have the best hand and only go for 2 streets of betting instead of 3, or you make small bets that get callers on draws.

Nevertheless, your winrate is impressive. I hope for your sake it's not just a short-term heater.
Thanks for advice going to use position more to my advantage and try and make as much value as possible on each street, thanks again
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08-13-2012 , 02:11 AM
Here are my stats from 50nl since I started back online. Any feedback would be nice. Thanks.

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08-13-2012 , 02:59 PM
Chaosinus, everything looks fine. There are certainly no obvious leaks. Keep up the good work!
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08-13-2012 , 10:41 PM
Thanks man! I wish my 100nl stats looked the same...
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08-14-2012 , 12:20 AM
I wish I could afford one buy-in for 100NL, so stop complaining. :P
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08-14-2012 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosinus
Here are my stats from 50nl since I started back online. Any feedback would be nice. Thanks.
[...]
Not expert enough to see leaks, but I do have some questions:
- Is the order of positions SB, BB then early to late?

Your biggest losing position is the second one on the list, so perhaps BB?

What I note there is the high 3-bet and high cold call % relative to your other positions.

Is it possible that you're defending a little too much and playing some marginal hands OOP?

I don't think this is a definite leak - just something to look at more closely. Having said that, your overall winrate is great, and even in this position, you're doing a good job of offsetting your blinds.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-14-2012 , 07:52 PM
ulrichw, thanks for the feedback.

yeah the positions go from SB to BTN. This is 6m so I'm not sure a 3bet of 7% is overly high. There are certainly more aggressive players out there. Also I play late at night when the tables get 3-5 handed a lot.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-14-2012 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosinus
[...] This is 6m so I'm not sure a 3bet of 7% is overly high. There are certainly more aggressive players out there. [...]
Yeah - totally agree the overall percentage makes sense.

I do have a question about your positional 3-bet %-age - I notice that you're 3-betting twice as much out of the blinds than other positions (SB 9.2%, BB 8.4%, vs. BTN 4.7%). Is this intentional?

This could also be skewed by the large number of short-handed games you play, so it may be worth filtering to 5/6 person tables to see how that changes things.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2012 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichw
I do have a question about your positional 3-bet %-age - I notice that you're 3-betting twice as much out of the blinds than other positions (SB 9.2%, BB 8.4%, vs. BTN 4.7%). Is this intentional?
He's probably 3-betting vs cutoff and button stealers. My highest 3bet is out of the BB, 2nd highest is out of the SB. When some 14/10 multitabler has a 30%+ ATS and a 90%+ fold to 3bet, they're just begging for it!
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2012 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichw
I do have a question about your positional 3-bet %-age - I notice that you're 3-betting twice as much out of the blinds than other positions (SB 9.2%, BB 8.4%, vs. BTN 4.7%). Is this intentional?
Intentional or not, this is actually quite common. Against steals, we can 3-bet light with the "top of our folding range" (hands like A5o, A4s), if villains will fold quite often. We can also call with hands that are ahead of villain's stealing range, but since playing oop is so tough, it often seems better to take it down pre.
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08-15-2012 , 04:38 PM
setting up my HUD and only play HU



the stat i have highlighted BTN 3Bet

question is how can the BTN 3 bet?

Since the BTN is first to play so if the BB raises that would be a 3Bet back to the button who can only 4Bet

since the blind is first bet Button raises 2nd bet BB makes it 3Bet

Dont get it?



Also what is the difference between 3Bet and BB resteal vs BTN

Last edited by Toocoolforschool; 08-15-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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08-16-2012 , 05:06 AM
I think most people have a higher 3bet from the blinds now for sure. Since we are 3betting a weaker range it would make sense. The fact that people are opening up to 50-85% of buttons in most cases means we should have a higher 3bet from the blinds.
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08-16-2012 , 02:51 PM
Could someone please tell me what HM2 calls a (A probe bet) ?

A probe bet is a bet out of position after the player who could have made a continuation bet on the prior street did not make that continuation bet.

I know they call it a probe bet with Poker tracker but not sure what its called in HM2?
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08-17-2012 , 12:24 PM
How common is it to see a graph with a blue & redline positive? Is it nearly impossible?

I've seen graphs with the redline going up & the blueline going down, and the most popular is obviously the redline going down & the blueline up..

I see it as:
Redline up = hyper agressive putting pressure everytime there is opportunity = LAG

Blueline up = make sure you're ahead & extract maximum value from good holdings = TAG

Both up would consist of a combination of the two, stealing pots whenever opportunity presents itself, fold to resistance, yet extract maximum from made hands...

Anyone here able to have both red & blue lines on an upward trend?
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-17-2012 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasCoupe
How common is it to see a graph with a blue & redline positive? Is it nearly impossible?

I've seen graphs with the redline going up & the blueline going down, and the most popular is obviously the redline going down & the blueline up..

I see it as:
Redline up = hyper agressive putting pressure everytime there is opportunity = LAG

Blueline up = make sure you're ahead & extract maximum value from good holdings = TAG

Both up would consist of a combination of the two, stealing pots whenever opportunity presents itself, fold to resistance, yet extract maximum from made hands...

Anyone here able to have both red & blue lines on an upward trend?
A positive red line also requires that you're playing against players who know how to fold, so it tends to be seen more at higher levels.

I think your description of TAG is a little oversimplified - a good TAG should also be using their tight image to take down pots with weaker hands in position.

I see it more as a function of the type of opponent you're up against: The more the opponent tends toward calling station, the more you emphasize blue-line play (i.e., extracting value with made hands) over red-line play (i.e., targeted aggression).

In the micros, a positive red line is probably not something to strive for - you're getting too many players who're thinking at Level 1 for there to be value in this strategy. Once you start moving up, it's more worthwhile (but it may still depend on your play style - I've seen some very impressive graphs from higher stakes players with downward sloping red lines).
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08-19-2012 , 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toocoolforschool
Could someone please tell me what HM2 calls a (A probe bet) ?
A probe bet is a bet out of position after the player who could have made a continuation bet on the prior street did not make that continuation bet.
In HM2 there are two: "Turn Bet vs Missed Flop Cbet OOP" and "River Bet vs Missed Turn Cbet OOP". You can find them in the "Bet vs missed Cbet" menu in the list of HUD stats.
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08-19-2012 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasCoupe
How common is it to see a graph with a blue & redline positive? Is it nearly impossible?
At 2NL it would be exceedingly rare, but I imagine it becomes more common at higher stakes, particularly among winning LAGs. (Very few lags win at nanostakes, and if they do, they nearly always have horrible blue lines). I doubt Phil Ivey even uses a tracker, but if he did, I'm sure he'd have positive red and blue lines.
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08-22-2012 , 01:28 AM
Got some positional stats & details after 5.5k hands:





Thoughts?
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-23-2012 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasCoupe
How common is it to see a graph with a blue & redline positive? Is it nearly impossible?

I've seen graphs with the redline going up & the blueline going down, and the most popular is obviously the redline going down & the blueline up..

I see it as:
Redline up = hyper agressive putting pressure everytime there is opportunity = LAG

Blueline up = make sure you're ahead & extract maximum value from good holdings = TAG

Both up would consist of a combination of the two, stealing pots whenever opportunity presents itself, fold to resistance, yet extract maximum from made hands...

Anyone here able to have both red & blue lines on an upward trend?
I am on the tighter side of TAG (10/7) and have a positive or flat red line. I don't think you necessarily need to be LAG. Just pick your villains wisely and play accordingly to there stats. Don't waste a cent. Taking small to medium sized pots away from regs post flop is a great way to increase your red line .

** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-23-2012 , 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasCoupe
Got some positional stats & details after 5.5k hands:
Thoughts?
Fine, but a sample of 10k hands or more is much more useful. All sorts of weirdness can happen in just a few thousand hands.
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08-23-2012 , 09:04 AM
Looks like I've managed to get a positive red & blue line.. we'll see how long it lasts !

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08-26-2012 , 10:35 AM
Hey guys, I would really appreciate your comments!

Here's stats from my first 10 000 hands (Stars / 10NL holdem) after about 3 years hiatus from online poker.

I decided to play 10 000 hands without any deep analysis in between so I would get nice sample size of my game, both good and bad habits.

I've been trying to play basicly TAG game and I'm somewhat surprised my red line shows profit and blue line is negative, result being a wash. I know that during my hiatus game has changed and that for example a single continuation bet doesn't get much appreciation. So I've tried to pay attention to double barrelling. Possibly I'm being overaggressive on later streets? I mean my aggression factor rises towards later streets, I suppose it isn't normal or is it?

I think I may




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08-26-2012 , 12:55 PM
You've had 4 straight flushes in 10,000 hands? I've only had one in over 100k!

Pre-flop positional stats look OK, although you can open up wider in LP. Your VPIP on the button should really be over 35%. Stealing blinds is very important in 6max.
Your double-barrelling is probably folding out better hands sometimes, which is good, but it means you're not getting to showdown very often, and when you do it's often with the worst hand. I think that at these stakes youre better off playing a bit more weak tight. Make a c-bet by all means, but don't barrel with air unless you pick up a draw. Lots of villains play fit-or-fold, so if they call on the flop they usually have something. You'll save money by checking the turn more often. When you flop big though, then you want to get calls from worse, so don't scare off the villain by potting every street unless he's a total station.
I think you know what you need to change. Just back off on the aggression a little. At higher stakes, barrelling will be more useful, but for now you want to make most of your bets for value.

Another minor point I noticed in the stats:
Fold to more river raises. They are often the (near) nuts. You'll probably only be good when you call a river raise about 10% of the time, but you're only folding 70%.
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08-26-2012 , 01:50 PM
It seems I didn't have that last statistic filtered out right I have not had 4 straight flushes, Poker Tracker includes hands which I folded but would've made it. Well that was quite irrelevant table anyway.

I'm aware about my strict starting hand criteria. I feel it's easier to get my act together by playing tight after a long pause. I'm planning to loosen up later.

Thanks for the tip about calling river raises. I'm sure your right about backing off and not being overly aggressive.

My cbet numbers are:

flop: 74.80 %
turn: 58.70 %
river: 61.76 %

I suppose I should get all those down a bit, especially on later streets.

Thanks for your comments, they're helpful
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