nut worst line

Would you mind explaining.

I'm working on ch/calling ranges as you basically don't need one under 10nl on Stars. This also means I need to work on ch/raising ranges too tho.

If you know of any good info on these subjects then I'd be much obliged if you could link anything

I think you should bet the flop. It should be fairly obvious why, wanting to work on x/c and x/r ranges isn't a reason not to be cbetting enough.

flop line is fine, turn is really bad for your hand and pretty good for his range so fold

The more I think about it, the more I think ch/fold flop may actually be the best line

In game I folded turn, was just a thought really.

Anyone know of any good threads on this subject, specifically check-calling?

nah, betting or x/c is better than x/f with 2 overs and nut gutter

don't know any good threads specifically on the subject off the top of my head but just be sure you realise why you're splitting ranges in a certain way. balance isn't very important in practice but a good thing to think about to improve your game and you may just want to exploitively have a very wide or thin x/c range in some spots.

Haven't played for a few days so probably won't make 10k hands this month.
Few of hands from my previous session.

1. Didn't like the look of villains stats - not many hands but seemed aggro. Decided on flop to c/call as I think he'd 3b an ace. Dunno, seems weak but I didn't want to get raised off a decent hand and his betsizing seemed weak.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): $6.76
MP: $5.00 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
CO: $5.06 (VPIP: 33.90, PFR: 15.25, 3Bet Preflop: 4.17, Hands: 61)
BTN: $6.15 (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 13)
SB: $1.47 (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 7)
BB: $10.12 (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 26.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has 9 9

Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.15, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.37, 2 players) A 7 8
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.67, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

River: ($1.27, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, BTN checks



2. Think I played this ok. Villain seemed weak tight, happy to call but not to bet/raise. Didn't like the river because if he hasn't the flush he'll be scared of it, so bet something he could call.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): $6.07
UTG: $5.00 (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 8.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
MP: $5.18 (VPIP: 32.73, PFR: 12.73, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 56)
CO: $6.67 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
BTN: $1.62 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 2)
SB: $9.29 (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has T T

UTG raises to $0.15, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) K Q A
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: ($0.32, 2 players) J
Hero bets $0.25, UTG calls $0.25

River: ($0.82, 2 players) 2
Hero bets $0.35, UTG calls $0.35



3. The inevitable hand that ruined the session. I'd rather shove here than call. His shove didn't make sense - would you do it with a made flush? Figured he had 1 pair or flush draw and thought I'd have good equity but looks like I was behind.
Although I suppose against a range of QQ-JJ,ATs+,KQs,AQo+,KQo it's 50/50.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $6.67 (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: $12.59 (VPIP: 35.29, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 34)
BTN: $3.09 (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
SB: $5.44 (VPIP: 13.89, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
Hero (BB): $5.12
UTG: $4.07 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Q Q

UTG calls $0.05, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.05, fold, Hero raises to $0.25, fold, BTN calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.57, 2 players) 5 K A
Hero bets $0.40, BTN raises to $2.84 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.44

Turn: ($6.25, 2 players) 2

River: ($6.25, 2 players) 6



Running about 4BI under EV this month due to hands like the above which I should win a proportion of the time.

Fold flop in H3, rest seems fine.

Just played live. Won 175bb. Mostly came from flopping middle set vs an aggro-fish's TPTK. No real interesting hands. Starting to pick up on tells a lot more.

@MMSS, I'm isolating with 69s here frequently, since Villain will pay me off very frequently when I bink. His mentality was "He bet he must be bluffing!"

Here's some examples, versus the same player.










Villain: Damn. Put you on the flush draw.






So that's why I wanted to get involved in a pot with him. He goes crazy in spots where people shouldn't, and thinks his opponents bluff him every time they raise.

So while 69s is at the bottom of my range, there were reasons to be playing it.

Okay, read above where I stated that "If I binked I'd get paid off".
Then also show me how I can possibly be leveling myself into a reg battle, at a limit where people open shove J4o for 100bbs.

Do I want him to be good? No. Was that the purpose of my posts? No where near it. I was simply having myself a lol at the mentality of some of these fish, and how he believes there's some "massive thought process" behind the turn X/C with T high, when realistically he just chased a gutshot and ended up with the best hand on the river.

30ish% of the time I make the best hand by the river. In doing so, if I bet, there's a huge chance he's going to bluff raise since he did that with an extremely high frequency. If I check behind turn, I'm only going to get a small amount of value out of his bluff raises if I bink river. If I bet turn and bink river, his bluff raise would be for his entire stack pretty much, so there's no reason to not bet turn with that in mind.


The problem I'm worried about is that if I played on 888 until say, 50nl where the games began to slow down a bit, I'd most likely get absolutely destroyed if I moved to Pokerstars where there were more games, since the games are tougher there. I wouldn't really improve as a player as well as I could by playing at Pokerstars.

So I'm unsure whether it's worth risking skill for winrate, when an increased amount of skill from further improvement through playing against better players could result in a similar winrate after time.

That hand you posted, I'm just X/F'ing flop. Loose villains will have a lot of hands that connect with this flop. He could easily turn up with hands like AJ, KJ, as loose as JT possibly, TT, JJ (unsure if it would 4bet preflop?).

But yeah, X/F, pick another spot to X/C.

Studebaker:

Hand 1: I'd be X/C'ing the river here as well if he chose to bet. Us checking basically makes us look like we've got the sort of hand he's got, although that's too advanced for people who cannot hand read at these stakes.

But basically, he's going to think "Oh, he checked, he doesn't have an ace, I bet!". With the second ace out there on the turn it makes it a lot less likely that he has an ace in his hand, so I'd be X/C'ing here too, ainec.

There are times when you'll X/C the river here and be shown an Ax sort of hand, but that's okay. Can't throw away a hand with high SDV like 9's here just because we get a bit of monsters under the bed syndrome.


Hand 2: Wouldn't play it differently. NH.


Hand 3: Calling doesn't seem ideal, since we don't have a huge amount of equity vs. Ax or some random flush.
As played, I think X/C'ing flop, and X/F'ing turn improved is better. Yeah it turns our hand face up, but fish won't know what you have.

OMFG LMFFFFAAOOO @ H1 CHAT

So my total rake paid is slightly over 6x my total winnings... (less in BB).

i'm at 2.8 but I pay significantly less rake at 50nl as compared when i was at 25nl.

Normally I never complete the SB or even limp behind, but with so many limpers already, and fish in the pot, I decided to.
Then I didn't know how to play my hand
As PFR, I'd be bet bet betting here but I don't like to donk, thought raising turn would be too strong then didn't want to risk a check behind on the river.
But I suppose by betting I never let him bluff, or bet Ax which he probably would do (ironic that he's the non-fish who continues, although not exactly reg standard).

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $5.00 (VPIP: 8.47, PFR: 6.78, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 60)
UTG: $7.10 (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 4.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
MP: $3.24 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
CO: $6.10 (VPIP: 23.47, PFR: 13.27, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 103)
BTN: $7.69 (VPIP: 27.63, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 78)
Hero (SB): $5.23

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has A 3

fold, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, BTN calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.03, BB checks

Flop: ($0.25, 5 players) A 2 9
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.15, fold, Hero calls $0.15, fold, MP calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.70, 3 players) T
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, fold

River: ($1.40, 2 players) J
Hero bets $1.00, fold

Leading the flop is best.

Bet bet bet.
And feel free to complete your SB when given the correct odds more frequently. 76s with a limper or two? Complete. AJo with 2 limpers? I would just be completing with that too since attempting to isolate people who are in position relative to you doesn't seem to work out too often.

Only time I raise limpers in the SB is with a super strong hand. In fact, my opening range for the SB is the same as my looser UTG opening range, since people in the BB love defending wider.

You don't want them to fold. Limpers are terrible and even OOP vs two of them you can own them for 3 streets of value pretty often.

I would say the complete opposite, that people don't defend enough. Standard range for opening in sb is something like you Co opening range.

edit: @ stude you can't donk in a limped pot. There is no pre flop raiser. a bet on the flop with A3s is pretty standard, You can get value and have huge implied odds. Turn raise is absolutely mandatory as played. don't be afraid of people who call to much folding.

Stude, lead 0.17 in A3s.

@Oly, with two limpers if I have AJo in sb, I'm always raising to 4-5bb. I think TDA or Gamma will have more to say about a very tight SB opening range which imo is not good unless BB is a better player than us.

Edit - I see Gamma has replied.

Agree with this. Villains fold the BB too often and certainly don't 3bet v SB opens enough. Just remember, you can check fold the flop if you need to

meh, opening the SB too much is a huge leak IMO. Opening something like a CO range isn't very wide though, it's actually pretty tight. You are basically giving BB a walk ~75% of the time.

and obv opening when folded to and opening with limpers are very different scenarios.

I just find that if we have two limpers, who are likely to call, there's a huge chance that with AJo OOP we'd be X/F'ing a lot of flops. There was a good graph which showed the profitability of cbetting into 1 player, 2 players, 3 - 4, etc. Cbetting into 2 players was hugely less profitable than 1 player, which is to be expected. Cbetting into 2 loose players, when OOP, is just... bleh. If you bink it's fine, but if you're only flopping a hand worthy of cbetting 28% of the time (according to the odds found of flopping a pair), then we're going to be playing X/F on a LOT of flops, so against two players who are extremely loose, will float wide, will call cbets with middle pair, I'd be completing so that I can see a flop with AJo.

If it was one limper I'd still be isolating, but I don't think a hand like AJo is strong enough for two limpers OOP.

The graph you saw showed the profit from cbetting and they fold iirc, not really a fair representation. (I assume, it's what I've seen and it'd be almost impossible for it to be anything better than that)

If you need 50% folds against one person you need them to fold 50% in a vacuum. I fit's two you need a*b > 50%, three you need a*b*c > 50%. Where a,... are a players fold to cbet.

However it doesn't take into account the times we are ahead so them calling our cbet is good. The times where we get loads of value on future streets.

If we iso and get two callers and we don't hit say we lose $1 70% of the time. If we hit and we go on to average $5 winnings 30% of the time.

0.3*5 - 0.7 * 1 = 1.5 - 1 = 0.5 = PROFIT

Just because something isn't profitable in a vacuum doesn't mean it's not profitable. It's so important to be aware of how we are making money off villains. There are so many times when people play their range in a way they gain a tiny bit with their 3/4/5 betting against a player when in reality what they are actually doing is just missing out on all villains huge postflop leaks where we have a much bigger edge.

What you're doing is thinking we won't isolate because we have no way of getting fold equity post flop, when in reality this is why we want to build a pot slightly pre and just value bet value bet value bet. We don't need them to ever fold at any point we make money from just that, they never fold.

The reason you want to do it your way is because you're trying to simplify possible decisions to make your life easier, you're thinking (not necessarily realising this) how can I find the easiest possible winning path when you should be thinking how can I find the biggest winning path. It's what everyone does when starting out, no different to threads like "how do I play my PP?" or "How do I play my full house". My way may put you in harder spots where you make more mistakes but now is the time to be making mistakes rather than wondering why you can't beat 50nl and shipping 1k on tilt.

As far as limpers go, the more the merrier. With 2+ limpers, open bigger, that's all. You cbet 28% but the pot you do win (immediately or on a later street) is much bigger as well.

Thanks for the $40 bruh

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...936_9242920F3F

#swag

I only got to play a few hands with him unfortunately. Ended up down against him too :/ and down for the session.

Note to self - don't play when tired.

decent advice. pm me your SN please mate broke my iphone