Your redline looks good for these stakes, what your cbetting/barreling stats, and how would you compare these frequencies to other limits?

Excellet thread. Thanks.

basically cbetting is a lot more effective! lol, i mean it would seem that people play back at you a lot less, i dont notice myself getting floated/ bluff raised hardly ever. and you can tell from the pre flop stats of people how lightly they are going to peel the flop (an 82/0 is probably seeing the turn regardless, but a 22/18 is going to be a little more tight)

also, dont really get played back at all pre flop. as u can see my vpip from cut off and button is pretty insane, im not sure u could get away with that as u move up because people start 3betting u light from the blinds etc. but at 10NL if u have a half decent seat where theres two 15/12's in the blinds then theres effectively free blind money on the table

Does the same rationale go for completing the SB?

in terms of raising from the sb if it folds round, then yes, u can still raise a pretty wide range. obviously being out of position hinders you a little, but you can still open pretty wide.

off the button though, there were some games i would open any two, purely because the blinds were folding that often/ giving up every time they missed a flop

sorry went outta town soon as i posted.

yes i am. with a combination of me not playing well and bad rivers im not running well at all. still up but its pretty bleh

Nice thread so far

95% of regs at 10NL don`t know what floating means, at 25NL it might look like floating but it still isn`t, just more donkalicious play that unfortunately sometimes pays off.

Best of luck!!!

I haven't read the complete thread. Do you do any table selection?

not yet. i just sort the tables by players to flop% and try to sit at the highest. well at NL10 i was kinda trying to sit with regs but most of them play like 12/10 so its pretty hard to make plays at them since they are never in a hand without the nuts

1 time.... (take a look at the chat too)

lol@there being a platinum star(jackwilcox) and supernova at a 25nl table

some NL25 hands.


these hands i just played in a NL25 session. NL25 was going really well until i lost the hand at the bottom of this thread. these hands are in order of interesting ness basically, tho they are all interesting anyway.

ok so hand 1.

villain in this hand posted the hand on the previous page with AK. he is a kinda weird player. his stats are like 22/11 which means his pre flop game has leaks. he flats a ton of junk from the blinds, but has owned me a couple of times post flop actually he has trapped me pretty well with tricky lines that didnt really make sense for value (so well played to him to be fair)
anyway, so the hand... i check back the flop mainly to enduce a bluff from villain. i dont think theres many worse hands that can peel on the flop here and theres certainly not many danger cards on the turn or river.
looks pretty standard until i explain at the bottom why its interesting

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $17.40
UTG: $20.05
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $8.90
SB: $53.95

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with K T
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) Q K Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.60) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

River: ($2.60) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Final Pot: $4.10
BB shows 8 8 (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Hero shows K T (two pair, Kings and Queens)
Hero wins $3.90
(Rake: $0.20)

the interesting point in this hand is that i asked villain why he had bet his 88 and he didnt really have a reason other than "i didnt put you on the king". now, this is ok reasoning, if you think you have the best hand, you wont go far wrong by betting. however is this a bluff or a value bet?? can he expect me to call with A high or 77?? similarly is it a bluff? can he expect me to fold 99 or Kx?? i dont think villain even thought remotely about this, he's just betting because... he... wants to bet

if your bet cant get worse to call, or it cant get better to fold, then its a pointless bet that will ultimately cost you money...


there are a few hands now that occur in 3bet pots. its kinda cool getting into 3bet pots, dynamics really change as the pots become bigger, and you can dish out some serious ownage in position. also, people at Nl25 have so far played REALLY terribly in them, so i think its worth looking at.

hand 2:

villain in this hand seemed a standard reg at the time. most of the tables i was playing i had been going absolutely nuts, playing like 30/26 with like a 13% 3bet and on some tables it was as high as 20%. from this hand you should be able to see why...

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $29.35
UTG: $9.10
CO: $25.25
Hero (BTN): $25.35
SB: $11.80

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q Q
UTG raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, 3 folds, CO calls $2

Flop: ($6.60) 6 4 6 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.75, CO raises to $5.75, Hero calls $4

this is a great flop for me, and im never folding at any point. you might say "wtf why did u bet so small". well, i have 3 streets to get the money in. with 100bb, i can bet like 1.75 now, bet 2/3rds pot on turn, and bet about the same 2/3rds pot on river and be all in. which is all i want to do.

sometimes people will fold to this ridiculous bet, especially as u move up the stakes, because it just looks like it is gagging to be called. so when i am bluffing it works perfectly. obv i have to keep the same approach when strong too...

anyways villain spazzes out and check raises. there is literally nothing he can have that beats me except a slowplayed AA or KK. theres no value in raising i just let him keep bluffing at me..


Turn: ($18.10) 5 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $3.75, CO calls $3.75

he decides not to fire again, which to me would indicate he probably has something like TT that wanted to 'see where its at'. i fire a tiny bet again purely because the pot is so big now that i can shove the river for half pot which is still a fine sizing.

River: ($25.60) 4 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $13.10 all in, Hero says "we splitting?", CO calls $13 all in

river is just obviously i know i have the best hand. i dont really know what he has except a mid pair, but i am guessing he is thinking i might be bluffing with whatever i could have. i trash talk a little hoping for him to put me on A high, and he SNAP calls

Final Pot: $51.60
CO mucks A J
Hero shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
Hero wins $49.60
(Rake: $2.00)

hand 3:

this hand is against what appears to be a reg. but he is so terrible. he is in the bottom hand which actually happened before this one but i think posting this one first is better for the purposes of the content order..


Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $21.90
MP: $37.60
CO: $24.50
Hero (BTN): $25.70
SB: $116.95
BB: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with A 9
2 folds, CO raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.25, SB calls $3.15, 1 fold, CO calls $2.25

against a cut off open who has like 30% to steal or so and like a 70% fold to 3bet, this is just instantly profitable play. when he does occasionally call i still have a hand that plays postflop and can make top pair type hands. however, flat calling would be pretty bad because A9o doesnt play well against his opening range (he can have hands like AJ/ AT etc that might fold to a 3bet)

Flop: ($10.00) 2 3 Q (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $3.25, SB calls $3.25, CO folds

i make my little bet. when the sb cold calls pre flop, his range is mostly like 66-TT sort of hands looking to flop a set and stack me (this is absolutely ridiculous thinking btw, and dont ever ever flat 3bets out of position 100bb deep with like 77 its so bad) he flats, so i assume he has what hand i listed above.

Turn: ($16.50) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.25, SB folds

well that J is unlikely to help him. if i was bluffing with KJ or AJ tho i just made a pair, and obviously i could have had him beat anyway. i make a tiny bet purely because i think he will fold real often. and also, i want to be able to shove the river with a big-ish bet (i would have about $14 left for a river shove) and i would basically be auto-shoving any river if he flatted again here.


ok this next hand is a 4bet pot vs the same guy in this last hand.

hand 4:

his stats read something like 22/18 8% 3bet or something. its not entirely important for the hand or in general except that his 3bet% is quite high and means his 3betting range is probably really polarized - JJ+ and AK account for like 3% of hands which is what most people will 3bet for value and stack off with. if you are balanced, people will also 3bet hands like 99 and AQ which make them hard to play against. however most people 3bet JJ+ and AK, then throw in loads of random stuff like 78s, 33 etc, that just cant stand any heat unless u want to 5bet bluff with them

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $22.40
MP: $24.90
CO: $30.45
Hero (BTN): $54.40
SB: $71.20
BB: $32.10

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q T
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, SB raises to $2.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.50, SB calls $3.75

stacks are deep, he has been 3betting a bit already and i think its a good spot for a 4bet bluff. 1) i have blockers to QQ/ AQ/ TT which make it more likely he has a marginal hand purely because of card combinations. 2) since we over 200bb deep, its hard for him to auto-5bet ship it in with JJ/ TT/ or even AK/ QQ (although he should be shipping those hands vs me)

my 4bet sizing doesnt need to big. 2.2x or whatever is plenty. it means he needs to fold something like 66% of the time to be immediately profitable assuming no equity when called (which is of course not the case)

so he flats, i obviously put him on a range of mostly mid pairs or something ridiculously spazzy like AQ that just didnt wanna fold.

Flop: ($13.25) J 9 8 (2 players)
SB bets $9.75, Hero calls $9.75

pretty nice flop for me i flop the nuts and he leads into me... i have absolutely no idea why he leads into me, this is terrible play on his part whatever he has. i would be betting this flop 100% when checked to whatever i had (because what can he do with AK/ AQ here if he has that, he has to check and fold).

i flat obviously, i can get all sets to call me if i raise, but i cant get any of his bluffs to continue unless he is an absolute maniac. also, he may be taking some weird bet/ fold line with a hand like TT whereby he bets to see 'where he is at' and then would fold to a raise (i shouldnt have to explain why this is terrible, but a lot of people do that sort of thing)

Turn: ($32.75) K (2 players)
SB bets $14, Hero raises to $29.75, SB raises to $45.50, Hero calls $8.40 all in

if he has some weird hand with a K in he just made a pair, i am obviously still ahead of whatever he has because i have the nuts. a raise is pretty standard here imo because i think he will stack off with whatever he has been betting with thus far, as his range is becoming a bit clear to basically a set.

River: ($109.05) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $109.05
Hero mucks Q T
SB shows J J (four of a kind, Jacks)
SB wins $106.05
(Rake: $3.00)

meh, he spikes his outter. i lose a 400bb pot which now puts me at a loss for NL25 fair play to him though he could obviously never fold.

but i really dont like his play post flop and it just shows how badly people play in 3 and 4bet pots. i guess he wanted to just build a big pot... but if i have QQ-AA i am going to bet myself and he can check raise/ check call and then check raise later etc... and if i have something like AK or a random bluff i am going to bet when checked to but im never going to call a bet.


hopefully this post has been interesting for you guys, i think these hands are the most interesting i have played so far at the micro stakes by a long way, and with a bit of luck i will be able to get into a lot more interesting spots in the future too

i would also be interested to hear from any Nl25 players who have played with me what they think of my image and how they adjust to it. i say not because i care too much about picking up reads etc (lol like me posting hands where i am talking about triple barrel bluffing in 3bet pots is going to be +EV for me!!), but because discussing how u adjust to someone who 3bets quite a lot in position and generally is pretty aggro for these stakes might help you come up with a more balanced strategy to cope with and exploit it.

hopefully i could help you adjust, because i think as poker develops the micro stakes will get more and more like the small/ mid-stakes with people watching a lot of deuces cracked videos etc... and the games will end up getting super aggro, its important to adjust well because it can cost you your whole stack if u make 1 bad decision in a 3bet pot

Hey I love reading your posts, keep 'em coming ;D

lol. if i had been 4bet bluffing with 33 there which i do on occasion i was either shipping it, or calling to stack off on non A or K flops.

i dont like your bet sizing btw, i mean, if i flat there and flop comes 447 what r u going to do??

If you had flat called there, I'd have moved in (since it's pot committed). I wouldn't have care about whether I missed the flop or not - I wanted to show some strenght pre-flop and I'd have continue representing a 'big' hand. (I don't know how much credit you'd have given me for it.. )

I made many mistakes in my session but I tried to correct them and I think I could do it in a few situations. It was a nice session with you (couldn't avoid you - you were everywhere! lol)

It's about 04:32 a.m. and I'm a little bit tired.

All I can say is good game & See you next time

P.S. Nice thread, keep it up


P.P.S. Sometimes I'm a maniac at the tables and try to mix up my game. Obviously you're way over my level but it was a good experience playing with you.

u owned me good with the flush vs my top pair. was a real marginal call down but i have no idea wtf you had lol!!

and tbh i thought u were following me i didnt like u being in position on me because it seemed like u were coming after me a little bit and therefore increasing my variance/ making it tougher.

that AK hand, i just think shoving does the same as your raise sizing. except i can possibly call sometimes just to see if u hit the flop because i literally put u on what u had and i usually trust my instincts even if they turn out to be miles off.

very interesting to read. looking forward to the rest of your posts.

it'd be nice to see you make those videos you mentioned......

awesome post.

Did you put him on AK based on his betsizing and expect him to make a smaller 5bet with KK/AA?

That's my usual assumption too when someone 4 or 5bets big-ish or even shoves. But too often I just valuetown myself and run into AA when I ship it with a small pair cause a 3x (or bigger) 4bet seems to be a standard line for many villains.

if you watch out for timing tells and bet sizing factors when playing then you will notice little things. sometimes its just obvious when someone has either AK/ is bluffing. i mean, theres not too much 4bet bluffing at these stakes i dont think, but yea. you can tell from the speed they raise.. if they had a big hand you would want to think a little longer about what to do.

lol yea i will do man, been a busy in just general life recently so havent had time. not sure when i will be able to do a vid, but in the next couple weeks at least

OK, donkey/devils advocate time

Is this bad play because of the play or just because of the sizing?

His bet sizing was small if he is trying to get you to fold out an unhit hand that he doesn't want to see improve on the turn or river but then you don't figure to have much because you checked back the flop.

On the turn you might have picked up a flush draw or already have a straight draw that will call off a smallish bet.

The river bet I don't get though I personaly might in the right circumstances against the right opp check call for getting value against bluffers.

So I guess I'm asking how would you have played this hand?

Also I think I know what your answer will be but could you explain your thought process during the hand?

from my point of view:

cant get value from much by betting flop. enduce bluffs from villain if i check. i would bet the turn and river if checked to on both streets to get value from hands like 88 though. no point in me raising at any point because he could have a weird Q hand, and i dont think he is ever calling a raise.

from his point of view:

pre flop is standard. flop is ok, no point betting. turn i would check too just to try and get to showdown. turn he can bet to fold out draws though he should be a bit more. draws arent that big a part of my range though because draws dont have showdown value - i would only check the flop to try to get to showdown more cheaply thereby meaning i have an ok hand.
river i would probably check fold. theres not really any draws i could have except an A high gutshot draw, and i wont be turning those into a bluff. like i said most flush draws that arent A high i would bet the flop with because they cant win at showdown. only hands id be betting on the river would have 88 beat.

rofl