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Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold?

11-15-2014 , 06:53 AM
Looking through the hands Ive posted in the micro stakes section every hand seems to be the same, I have a pretty strong hand (yet not a monster), such as strong overpair or TPTK, maybe 2pair or set and I face aggression, maybe a flop check raise, maybe a big turn or river bet. Just looking at my post history you will see Im posting the same thing QQ/KK/AA/AK in tough spots.

And it seems 90% of other people are also posting these hands only. Most of the time (at least 75%) we are getting advice to fold at the micros without reads when we are facing aggression with these hands. Yet what Ive found is that when I am holding monsters and I do go all in, villain actually has pretty weak holdings a HUGE % of the time. My question is, why can he not have these holdings when I have my not so strong hand? Some examples...



Hero (SB): $5.54 (110.8 bb)
BB: $5 (100 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
MP: $4.58 (91.6 bb)
CO: $10.39 (207.8 bb)
BTN: $6.84 (136.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A K
UTG raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.13, BB folds

Flop: ($0.50) K 7 A (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, BTN bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, UTG calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.55) 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, BTN bets $1.30, Hero raises to $2.95, UTG folds, BTN calls $1.65

River: ($7.45) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.09 and is all-in, BTN calls $2.09

Spoiler:
Results: $11.63 pot ($0.48 rake)
Final Board: K 7 A 4 4
Hero showed A K and won $11.15 ($5.61 net)
BTN mucked 9 A and lost (-$5.54 net)



SB: $4.25 (85 bb)
BB: $5.59 (111.8 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.34 (206.8 bb)
MP: $5.68 (113.6 bb)
CO: $5 (100 bb)
BTN: $5 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4 4
Hero raises to $0.15, MP folds, CO calls $0.15, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.47) 4 A 4 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.24, BB folds, Hero raises to $0.89, CO calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.62, CO calls $1.62

River: ($5.49) J (2 players)
Hero bets $3.94, CO calls $2.34 and is all-in

Spoiler:
Results: $10.17 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: 4 A 4 5 J
Hero showed 4 4 and won $9.75 ($4.75 net)
CO showed Q A and lost (-$5 net)


Hero (SB): $9.26 (185.2 bb)
BB: $7.32 (146.4 bb)
UTG: $6.19 (123.8 bb)
MP: $5.47 (109.4 bb)
CO: $5.05 (101 bb)
BTN: $5.41 (108.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q Q
2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.45, BB folds, CO raises to $1.30, Hero raises to $9.26 and is all-in, CO calls $3.75 and is all-in

Flop: ($10.15) 3 8 9 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($10.15) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($10.15) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Spoiler:
Results: $10.15 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: 3 8 9 5 2
Hero showed Q Q and won $9.73 ($4.68 net)
CO showed T T and lost (-$5.05 net)



SB: $6.21 (124.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.48 (109.6 bb)
UTG: $6.27 (125.4 bb)
MP: $1.07 (21.4 bb)
CO: $4.94 (98.8 bb)
BTN: $4.79 (95.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.10, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.35, BTN calls $0.25

Flop: ($0.72) 6 8 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.48, BTN calls $0.48

Turn: ($1.68) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, BTN calls $1.20

River: ($4.08) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.93, BTN calls $2.76

Spoiler:
Results: $9.60 pot ($0.40 rake)
Final Board: 6 8 2 7 3
Hero showed Q Q and won $9.20 ($4.41 net)
BTN showed J J and lost (-$4.79 net)



Now I know what you will say its opponent dependent etc, against a fish you're not gonna fold overpairs yet against a reg you give him more credit blah blah blah. I will tell you this with 100% certainty, all of the players in these hands had very good looking "reg" stats. Also 90% of the time I have less than 100 hands on my opponents, so stats like raise cbet, fold to turn bet, fold to 4bet etc are useless almost all the time.

My hand is not important in these examples, villains hand is. Lets say in hand1 I had AQ, hand2 AK, hand 3 JJ, hand4 JJ. Most would say I would have overplayed, yet I would have actually had the best hand.

From memory of posting hands I can say that with all of the above I would have been given advice to slow down, start checking, possibly folding to raises etc, control pot size. Yet I am seeing this all the time so its confusing me a little every one in the hand history forums saying fold fold fold without +2pair when the pot starts getting big... thoughts?
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote
11-15-2014 , 07:34 AM
First part of your post concerns with you getting advice about folding when facing aggression. You then post hand histories of you showing aggression with good hands.
I'm not sure how your hand history contradicts the the advice being offered (folding to aggression). Infact your hand histories reinforce the advice, your opponents can fold vs your aggression.
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote
11-15-2014 , 08:44 AM
I do not advise you to fold in any of these hands.
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote
11-15-2014 , 09:45 AM
Yes like I said it was to show what Im seeing my opponents stack off with, rather than the actual results or what hand I had. What about these examples lego?



SB: $2.09 (41.8 bb)
BB: $2.45 (49 bb)
UTG: $6.15 (123 bb)
Hero (MP): $5.55 (111 bb)
CO: $7.52 (150.4 bb)
BTN: $5.18 (103.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K K
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.15, CO folds, BTN calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.37) 2 8 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.24, BTN raises to $0.56, Hero calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.49) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.22, Hero calls $1.22

River: ($3.93) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.25



SB: $2.09 (41.8 bb)
BB: $2.45 (49 bb)
UTG: $6.15 (123 bb)
Hero (MP): $5.55 (111 bb)
CO: $7.52 (150.4 bb)
BTN: $5.18 (103.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K K
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.15, CO folds, BTN calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.37) 2 8 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.24, BTN raises to $0.56, Hero calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.49) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.22, Hero calls $1.22

River: ($3.93) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.25



SB: $7.97 (159.4 bb)
BB: $5.68 (113.6 bb)
UTG: $4.39 (87.8 bb)
MP: $2.50 (50 bb)
CO: $5.17 (103.4 bb)
Hero (BTN): $16.99 (339.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A A
2 folds, CO raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, CO calls $0.28

Flop: ($0.87) Q 7 5 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $0.58, CO calls $0.58

Turn: ($2.03) 7 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.36, CO raises to $2.85, Hero raises to $8.58, CO calls $1.34 and is all-in

River: ($10.41) K (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:27 AM
There is a big difference between facing aggression and being the aggressor.

The first batch of hands you posted you were the one being aggressive and villain called down with weak holdings. Notice that villain didn't raise you in those hands with his weak holding that he wants to stack off with.

in the next batch of hands villain is betting and raising you.

Surely you can see the difference. Nobody ever claimed that villains wont stack off light at the micros. they will as they universally call way too light. What people are saying is that they wont bluff you much at the micros so when they raise they will have a monster.
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote
11-15-2014 , 07:38 PM
Actually I see a fair amount of donk betting at say .1, .25. I'm not sure about .01 .02. And these people who are donk betting bluffing are kind of the bad players, not the good players. It's actually pretty good to donk bet if you have the best hand.

This is why I don't play 100bb plus much. I don't like investing a large amount amount just to fold to someone who's going to float his 45 off and then bluff the turn. And yeah, people do it sometimes trying to be funny or something.

If my hand hits the flop hard, I generally don't fold. Otherwise, why am I playing it? And this is why I don't play deepstack.
Losing stacks with big hands and people saying to fold? Quote

      
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