If a villain shoves all in, hero calls and villain immediately mucks, if hero shows his cards and actually had a worse hand than villain, hero still wins the hand right?

yea if he mucks you ship the pot anyway you dont have to show.

If the villain mucks his hand then the hero does not need to reveal his hand to collect the pot. It doesn't matter whose hand was "better" if one hand was already mucked

Of course

Villain has no hand, that can't beat anything. Even if hero is playing the board he wins.

Other wise villains could just muck and claim they had nuts. There is a reason people are required to show their hands to win the pot.

Thanks - that's what I thought.

I was thinking of having a villain who mucks when he bluffs and his bluff is CALLED - not raised (in which case it would be folding not mucking), CALLED. After he mucks his hand I would show him that I had an even WORSE hand, to hopefully intimidate him into thinking I "just know" when he's bluffing. Putting him on tilt would be a bonus.

lol i dont think thats a good plan to call with a worse hand then a guy who is bluffing to hope he mucks his hand or you dont have to show 1st.

How would you know he is bluffing? why not just call him down if you know. Not wait until you have 3 high and call so you can hope he mucks

Being a douche like this is a bad idea at live poker, not just because the people are right there and there's a possibility that you'll piss somebody off too bad, but because people might deny you action in the future.

If villain mucks and you have garbage, who cares? Give your cards back to the dealer, throw them their tip, and move on to the next hand.

Honestly seems like you are sitting up thinking of scenarios here.

Do you really think there are going to be a lot of times where you call an all-in with a hand that is so bad that you know it is worse than a bluff that won't even show? And you do this in the hope that he will actually muck his hand - more likely he'll wait for you to show a hand and if he can beat you he'll take the money.

In the rare case that this happens (you both miss your draws) and he does muck - just thank your lucky stars and don't show. Otherwise, the only thing that will change is that he (and everyone else) will never muck his hand without seeing yours, and you'll lose whatever slim chance you have at that. And since the only way you really are calling with a terrible hand would be a draw that doesn't get there, I don't think it will effect much in the future. If you really were calling an all-in with absolutely no chance of having the winning hand - well then you really are throwing away money.

On a slightly more serious note, why do villains muck when they get called? What do they have to lose by at least TRYING to win the hand?

I can understand CALLING the last bet, the other guy shows, has you beat, you muck. But why muck without even trying to win the hand? What information are you hiding?

Once the villain's hand hits the muck, it is 99.9% dead and you win the pot regardless of your hand. (Anyone who argues that it's 100% hasn't played a lot of live poker and has no clue how erratic many floor decisions are.)

The above is not true in many rooms. Most places I have played will require you to show your hand to claim the pot if the river bet was called. It doesn't matter that you may be the only one with cards left, you still have to show.

If they miss their draw but think you have a weak hand that they can push you off, they will bet the river. You obviously have a busted draw beat if you call the bet so what is the point of trying to win with like J high?

They are probably trying to speed up the game and also not have to "give away information." (Not that most players at LLSNL will know what to do with that information anyways.)

On a board of A46KQ, you have been betting with your straight draw 35. On the river, with a complete miss, you fire out a 3/4 pot bet. Your opponent tanks, then calls. You don't think you'll be called by 23 or 25 so you assume you are beat. You just say "nice call" and move on. No need to try to win the hand.

That said - even when I know I'm beat, I won't muck until I see that I really am beat.

FYP


The "IFs" don't always matter.

There is a difference between folded and mucked. You can't fold at showdown so if the hand is 100% recognizable many places will (and should IMO) allow it to be shown. On the other hand if the hand is mucked properly it will be buried deep within the muck pile and I've yet to see a floor (and hopefully never will) allowing the hand to be retrieved.

It happens on occasion. I remember multiple stories in the Foxwoods thread. I'm too lazy to search the thread for them all, but here was a recent discussion:

My point is, what OP is asking about is an angleshoot IMO and is not a good idea to try. (Even taking out the douche aspect) It sounds like OP is thinking out loud and not trying to be shady, but it is not a +EV move IMO. You would likely lose more than you win, and even when you get the better hand to muck, you won't always get the pot because floor decisions are rarely uniform.