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Learning sucks Learning sucks

03-15-2010 , 06:51 AM
Hey guys. So ive been poking around the forums here, and I can tell its only going to get worse before it gets better.

I read a bunch of posts about preflop raising + continuation bets (things I rarely did. I limped into basically every single pot, everything from AA to 65). Tried to apply these techniques and failed miserably. I think I lost 5 bucks of my 35 dollar bankroll in under an hour (after losing 5 total bucks in a month of playing).

Any suggestions on possible noobie mistakes Im making are much appreciated. Im thinking im raising too often...and playing too many hands. I dont know.

Also: 4xbb raises preflop is just a terrible plan in hold em tournaments. Everyone either folds or goes all in.
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03-15-2010 , 06:54 AM
if u play tournaments, my advice would be to look in the relevant strategy forum on here and try to read up on some things that they advise in there. im sure there are lots of strategy threads about.
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03-15-2010 , 07:19 AM
Your thread title, though humorous, has an element of truth. Actually, every time you learn something significant, that changes your attitude or approach to the game... well, I find it leads to growing pains as you make adjustments and try to apply what you've learned. It's beneficial to your long term prospects, but can cause some turbulent effects short term. Keep thinking, learning, and play through the tough times to see the positive results. Then learn something new and repeat the process of rebuilding your game.
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03-15-2010 , 07:59 AM
I'm currently only playing cash, but I started playing tournies. I read Dan Harrington's books and that helped loads, and I mean loads. I think you can buy them on here too.
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03-15-2010 , 08:23 AM
Learning doesn't suck. Ignorance sucks.

You said you read Harrington. Did that include his books on cash games? The first three are primarily about tournament poker. Four and five are about cash games. Using his advice is good enough to make you a winner at low stake full ring cash games. Once you can do that, you have a base to build on.

Beyond that, post hands you have trouble with. It's hard to give any specific advice without seeing some hands.
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03-15-2010 , 08:36 AM
OP what exactly are your questions pertaining too? Cash games or tournies?

As a new player you should be trying to get yourself out of awkward situations and be putting your opponents in the same said awkward situation. In order to do this, you will need to tighten up, you want to be playing good cards to increase your chances post flop. Also playing positionally will help you drastically. There are a lot of things that can help a newer poker player, limping isn't something I really like to do or even reccomend
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03-15-2010 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadignose
Your thread title, though humorous, has an element of truth. Actually, every time you learn something significant, that changes your attitude or approach to the game... well, I find it leads to growing pains as you make adjustments and try to apply what you've learned. It's beneficial to your long term prospects, but can cause some turbulent effects short term. Keep thinking, learning, and play through the tough times to see the positive results. Then learn something new and repeat the process of rebuilding your game.
Great advice here.

Also, learning shouldn't suck. As long as you play poker you should never stop learning. In fact, learning should be your #1 goal.
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03-15-2010 , 02:43 PM
Hey, sorry, yesterday's post was maybe a little indirect because I was annoyed I lost so much money.

I have been up and down in money since I started at pokerstars. I was about 40 bucks up in my 1st week (playing exclusively multitable sit and go tourneys), and lost all my earnings, then slowly got myself back up to about 12 or 13 up (playing exclusively pot limit omaha 1c2c tables), then lost it all.

I wanted to try to get back into NL hold em, the old school cash games way. In fact, the only real reason I was playing tourneys when I first got on the site is because I was told that tourneys are a great way to learn the basics without losing too much money. Although this is true to some extent, the massive number of kamakazi players at the beginning of tourneys, and the mid to high blinds later in the tourneys means that there is never a time in a tournament that plays anything like a cash game.

In conclusion: I am trying to learn cash games. specifically 1c 2c NL Hold Em.

I believe that to learn this game, I need to learn it from the beginning of a hand to the end. And by that I mean, I need to start by learning how to play preflop (and learn the associated connecting bet with specific preflop situations). I think I know how to limp into a pot and fold if my cards dont come out just fine, so that shouldnt need help. :P

I think these would be possibly very helpful to me:

1) a (preferably streamed, because I dont know that my GF will want me to DL stuff to her computer) video of someone playing a 1c2c table correctly, preferably a somewhat significant number of hands.

2) I dont know, a chart of which hands would generally be played from each position... or something. I mean, I understand that you need to mix up your play, and cant be formulaic, but it seems to me that you should at least understand the theoretical ideal so that you can have a starting point.

Like... Ok, this is what I would be curious to know:

Lets say you were building a computer that played poker. And lets say that being completely predictable is not an issue. (I dont know, you are playing some form of rush poker, or you are only playing a single hand). The computer did the following two things: 1) all pre flop betting. 2) Suggests a CONNECTING BET to you in situations where a connecting bet is expected. Id be curious to know (based on position and the action in front of you), which hands you call, raise, or fold.
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03-15-2010 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Bernadino
Learning doesn't suck. Ignorance sucks.
no no, its "learning sucks, but ignorance sucks more." Unfortunately when I am learning to be less ignorant, I am learning AND I am ignorant.

Quote:
You said you read Harrington. Did that include his books on cash games? The first three are primarily about tournament poker. Four and five are about cash games. Using his advice is good enough to make you a winner at low stake full ring cash games. Once you can do that, you have a base to build on.

Beyond that, post hands you have trouble with. It's hard to give any specific advice without seeing some hands.
I have not read harrington, that was someone else. I have read a few books though. I read parts of super system (This book did not do much for me.) I read about half of No Limit Hold Em: Theory and Practice (this book did a LOT for me), and I read an omaha book by Tom McEvoy and someone else. I also read a SNG book because I didnt realize it was for single table SNGs, which from what I can tell is not a particularly popular form of online poker anymore.
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03-15-2010 , 05:57 PM
Don't bother with Super System. It's only useful if you have never played a particular game at all.

Harrington covers standard, tight play. That's what you need to win at micro limits.

For Omaha, Pot Limit Omaha Poker by Jeff Hwang is the best place to start.
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03-15-2010 , 06:41 PM
ok, thanks sounds great. You know, I never bought the harrington book because of his stupid hat >.>

Which book should I get? I mean, I assume the cash games one is the one to buy, but i dont know if there are multiple options.

(also, learning started to pay off quicker than expected. Last 3 tables ive played I was up 2.20, up 1.05, up .64. Still down in total, but its a start.)
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03-15-2010 , 06:56 PM
seems like you are too result oriented, an hour of play assuming you are only playing 1 table is very few hands.
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03-15-2010 , 09:15 PM
when you learn, don't memorize so much as try to understand why you should open raise instead of open limping (hint: it gives you the initiative on the flop, builds a pot for when you hit a big hand, etc)

active learning is more effective than mindless raising every hand without having a clue why you are doing it
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03-15-2010 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark
ok, thanks sounds great. You know, I never bought the harrington book because of his stupid hat >.>

Which book should I get? I mean, I assume the cash games one is the one to buy, but i dont know if there are multiple options.

(also, learning started to pay off quicker than expected. Last 3 tables ive played I was up 2.20, up 1.05, up .64. Still down in total, but its a start.)
For cash games there is a 2 volume set Harrington on Cash Games.

They're definitely not the only books or the last word on cash play, but they give you a solid base to start with.
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03-15-2010 , 09:39 PM
Harrington on Cash - good books (I have read them and continue to re-read them), BUT, I think they are really just good for theory and big picture when playing micros. Lots of stuff in the books will likely just get you into trouble because it is meant to apply to thinking players.

My strong recommendation is to find the sircuddles post on beating the micros. It is tailor made to take a losing micro player and make him or her not a loser any more. It is not the end all be all guide to playing great poker. But, I think it is really good for what it claims to be - a guide to learn how to win at the full ring micros.
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03-15-2010 , 09:47 PM
How many hands have you played in total? How long have you been playing?

You could study and read everything on these forums but experience is most important. If you have $35 BR you should be playing $1 STTs or 2NL only. Try and play a lot but make sure when you are playing you are thinking about your every move, and what you are trying to accomplish. Also try to think what sort of hands he raises/checks/bets with.

If your quite new to poker the Full Tilt Poker Academy is good to show what a lot of us would consider "basics" but to a new player very important stuff.
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03-16-2010 , 01:16 AM
I have not played full tilt, I have stayed exclusively on pokerstars.

I dont know how many hands I have played. My username is gorillaz256, I dont know if there is some site that keeps track of such stuff.

I finally figured out the preflop raising and the connecting bets. This stuff is like magic. I cant believe that I can play nearly any hand from the button and fold everyone by the flop. Everytime it works, I am amazed. AS I AM TYPING THIS POST: all 8 players limp in. I have A/K as big blind. I raise 9 BB, ALL PLAYERS FOLD. wtfs?!

I didnt totally understand how it worked. I kept reading some stuff on the forums about blind stealing and all that, and now I understand.

I know experience is most important, but practice doesnt make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I need to know what im doing to take the next steps.

In conclusion: thank you. I have been here...what... 3 days? and my game has been SIGNIFICANTLY improved.

Last edited by Tomark; 03-16-2010 at 01:27 AM.
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03-16-2010 , 01:53 AM
(I should note that I am still in the negative, because I am sort of testing where this thing works and all...)
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