i suppose thats what taking shots is all about though. It's not gonna work out everytime.

Is your sn outed? I play nl400 on party but I sometimes play hu a level lower, played for a while against some german yesterday.

its fffuuu on party, although I don't play on it much and I'm Canadian. They don't respect my raises.

ftp though.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $202.50
BTN/SB: $247.10

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with 8 4
BTN/SB calls $0.50, Hero checks

Flop: ($2.00) 7 6 A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

Turn: ($2.00) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, BTN/SB calls $2

River: ($6.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN/SB raises to $24, Hero raises to $199.50 all in, BTN/SB calls $175.50

Final Pot: $405.00
Hero shows 8 4 (a straight, Eight high)
BTN/SB mucks 7 7
Hero wins $404.50
(Rake: $0.50)

Another fun NL2 hands, i'm beginning to believe in the whole doom switch/boom switch thing. After i cashed out my results starting going awful. Then since i re-deposited what i lost during my drunken 'recreational' session last weekend things have been going brilliantly for me.



Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $2.59
BB: $0.95
UTG: $4.76
MP: $5.10
CO: $4.01
BTN: $16.25

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with J J
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.08) 7 9 J (4 players)
Hero bets $0.06, BB folds, UTG calls $0.06, BTN raises to $0.24, Hero raises to $1, UTG folds, BTN calls $0.76

Turn: ($2.14) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.57 all in, BTN calls $1.57

River: ($5.28) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)



If your wondering why i limped JJ, i'd raised/3bet the last 3 hands in a row (with ATo, AKs & AA), and people were starting to play back a bit. I didn't want to have them shove over the top of me as i'm not happy getting it all in PF with jacks. And i figured i would get a LOT of action if i hit my set.......i was right. Was a little worried by the 3rd heart on the turn but after the last few hands i figured it was a lot less likely that he had 2 hearts

Chava, "facepalm.jpg".

lol, it's not something i'd generally do. But under the circumstances I figured I was likely to win more by hitting a set. Than raising out of position. Plus if overcards came and i got a lot of action then i could get away from the hand fairly cheaply.

For some reason after 50k hands playing like a 14/12 nit, I have opened up to 24/19 over last 10k hands, I like how one reg reacted to my constant 3betting

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $6.09
BB: $2.49
UTG: $10.66
MP: $6.10
CO: $4.98
BTN: $7.31

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K K
1 fold, MP raises to $0.25, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.65, 1 fold, MP raises to $6.10 all in, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.44 all in

Flop: ($12.48) 8 6 T (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($12.48) 7 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($12.48) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

2nl 6max.. face palm.. i dont mean to be rud..but ....

also bitchbee why do you have IT's avatar?


also... i just came back from my friend's b'day party... i likes some scoth..... lol..... hehehehe

i was grabbed very inappropriately by my best friend's GF... kinda weirded out right now....


PS: harvey birdman attorney at law!

That's terrible reasoning. If you've been aggro, then you get MORE action from worse hands, which is GREAT.

I'm sorry, but you're approaching the game wrongly at the moment, if a) you limped behind with jacks, b) you think that raising last 3 hands is anywhere close to a justification for limping behind.

Yes, are you IT in disguise?

It's very rare that i'll be happy to put 135 bb's in PF with Jacks. Even at NL2

what about QQ?? are you happy wit QQ??

you see where im going wit this??

Yes i see where your going with this, and generally the only hand i'm willing to get it all in with for that much PF is Aces or Kings.

Ro, if you can explain to me how this play is a largely negative EV play then i'll happily concede that i'm wrong. If it is a mistake it's only a VERY small one and is hardly gonna cost me a fortune in the long run

Jacks are way ahead of villain's range. JJ is HIGHLY profitable hand.

According to my HEM, JJ has a evbb/100 of 306, and actual bb/100 of 247.

With a 70% W$SD with the hand, you're essentially forfeiting 20% EV for each additional bb that you are not putting into the pot. By merely flat calling instead of raising it 5x, you're losing .8bbs immediately, not to mention money you will win postflop. .8bbs is a LOT of money in the long run. Do not think for a moment that this <1 bb mistake is anything but huge.

You have the best hand, you are a better player. Villain will about as likely pay you off with a worse made hand whether you raised or not. Why on earth would you not raise? Hands you fold out that you beat are insignificant and will not pay you off enough to compensate for the times you take their preflop call money + additional money postflop.

Finally, by isolating the fish getting HU, you have a way better time playing it than OOP vs 2 players.

How is raising JJ preflop even close to being worthy of discussion??

And it's not -EV technically, it's just way LESS EV than raising.

Also, since when does raising with a hand mean you're gonna get it in...?

And as i've pointed out already, I have only ever done this 3 times with JJ (the first 2 were a few months into when i started), i'm by no means saying that JJ is more profitable to just limp as i know full well that isn't the case. But the way things were going at the table i made the choice on this paticular hand to limp with a good chance of stacking someone, or if i miss my set and on an unfavourable flop I can simply fold and lose the 2c i put in for the blind. The main point of this is people are commenting on my reasoning behind this hand and the way i interpreted things this was a better play 'at the time'. I may have been wrong to think that, but thats the feel i had at the time and i went with it.

How would raising decrease your chance of stacking someone? In fact, would the fact that you've been aggro increase the amount of times and amount of money you will get paid by raising compared to normal? Thus is it not highly profitable top raise and bloat the pot with what is likely the best hand and what WILL be the best hand>

So you're going to FOLD IF YOU MISS A SET? So you're just throwing away money despite having the best hand? Now folding the best hand SOMETIMES, but not being able to wait until you have reason to suspect you're beat before contemplating a SUPER PREMIUM hand, is just scared money, suboptimal, and overall bad. You will not improve as a poker player until you are willing to put money in when there is a more than 35% chance you will lose the pot, though I argue you will probably win this pot more than 35% anyway.

Again, more often than not, your hand will remain to be the best on the flop more often than not; it will win more than 50% showdown (70% in my case). As such, each big blind you put in the pot preflop and postflop will, not exactly, but roughly equate to 20% profit. Why would you NOT want to maximize this edge??

You were wrong, and I hope I've explained why. As before, you have an edge, EXPLOIT IT.

The only reason not to jam the best hand is the value of DECEPTION. In this case, by raising, you do not gain from deception, you do not gain from folding out hands that will pay you off postflop, and villain is calling almost always after your raise anyway, ESPECIALLY since you've been raising the last 3 hands. One would argue that your limp here becomes even more suspicious since you've been so aggressive.

The idea that investing less money makes it easier to get away from is terrible. It makes no logical sense. If you're in a spot where calling down is -EV, it doesn't matter how much money you've invested. JJ is NOT a RIO (reverse implied odds) hand, and therefore there's no issue of that. What matters is if your raise is +EV vs his limp calling + BB's calling range, and whether this value is worth more than the "deception" of completing the SB.

Players at this level are so 1 level that deception counts for nothing, especially pre.

Finally, if villain's perception of your complete range as really wide since you didn't raise, this actually makes your hand a lot stronger, since it makes trips or botom or middle two pair a much more believable part of your range, and now if he has KT on T69 he will not stack off as easily due to SPR.

You want to make SPR good so you can get loads of value with your overpair, but also pot control with it when an overcard comes. If you're playing super deep, without control of the hand with BB's range as ATC, your diminishing your postflop edge vs fish, especially being OOP.

Ken?

I honestly do not believe that making this play this one time was as bad as your making out. You even said yourself that it is probably not a negative EV play. If I was doing this on a regular basis and had implied that i thought it was generally a good play then fair enough berate away.

As for raising pre decreasing my chances of stacking someone, your right it probably doesn't. But as things stand at the minute i'm not a very strong post flop player (I'm pretty sure i've mentioned this on several occasions in this forum). And with a hand like jacks that i've had a lot of trouble with in the past, i'm not comfortable building a big pot out of position. As for folding if i don't hit my set, i never implied that i would. But if an A,K or Q flop then being fairly poor post flop and given villains likely very wide limp calling range i'm unlikely to know if i'm ahead still and would most likely have to fold to any kind of reasonable raise. Which given the villains actions in previous hands was fairly likely.

As for flat out saying i'm wrong. There are very things from what i can tell in poker that are as simple as either being wrong or right. There are so many contributing factors in each decision a person makes, not just based on whats happened at the current table or against the current villain. So to simply say 'your wrong' is a little short sighted imho.

Anyway, i've already pointed out that this is something i've only ever done once (since i've actually had a reasonable idea of what i'm doing) and something i am highly unlikely to do again (although if the exact same situation came up again i'd make the same play).

You are wrong given the information provided, imo. It is good to look beyond "standard" lines, but one must provide a reason to deviate.

It's not a -EV play to shove AA everytime you get it either... do you plan on doing that?

I've not read all these long posts, but pocket jacks is the fourth best hand in this game, no?

I never actually asked for any advice or comments on the hand, it was meant as a 'i'm finally running reasonably well' post. Since most of my posts in here seem to be me complaining about bad beats. If i'd have asked 'did i play this badly?' or 'Look how well I played this hand?' then fair enough i'd deserve this rant. Yes i gave my reasoning behind the play, but i didn't go into a huge amount of detail since i wasn't asking for advice. It's things like this that put me off posting on most forums.

No, but i feel a lot more comfortable playing Aces than i do Jacks.

I guess I forgot this was an LC/NC thread.

Chava's play was bad, but we all make bad plays /stop berating him, I just dumped in 250bbs with tptk in a single raised pot.

And yes this is my new account. Far better sn imo.

fyp

The five worst hands in poker:

1. AKo
2. AQs
3. QQ
4. JJ
5. 72o

The five best hands in poker:

1. 89s
2. 35s
3. Q4o
4. AA
5. 99

=/ I didn't mean to berate. I just thought there were better ways to approach hands in general, especially after Chacava explained his reasoning behind limping.

Whatever, I think you have to post that hand. It must be epic.


I DISAGREE!

It's not. I play far far worse. Hint: I don't have the c/f river line in my playbook.

Well, also consider some games have bounty rules about that particular hand, which moves it into the top 10.