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03-27-2022 , 09:46 PM


I shoved on the Turn after some pretty heavy betting getting there... This guy picks up a Q, the sad thing for me is I can't play him all night. In Micro Limits which I've put myself back in, how does one survive this in the short term without playing too-too strict?
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03-28-2022 , 12:44 AM
We have no idea how the betting went, but I don't really understand the question. Is it really "How do you avoid losing sometimes after you were ahead?"

The answer is that sometimes you are going to lose when you think you were going to win. And you survive this by playing with money you can well afford to lose. I assume that losing $5 is not going to break the bank - so just keep playing. You don't have to necessarily get your money back from that particular player - it is irrelevant who got your money. Just play good poker, and if you are a solid player then you should do fine in the long run.

A better question is whether or not you should be getting all-in with one pair and a king kicker, facing a lot of aggression. In general, the answer is no. Again, without knowing anything about your opponent, or how action was, it is hard to say whether or not you made a mistake. Obviously, knowing his hand, it is easy to say you got it all-in with the best, and he sucked out on you. But you didn't know what he had until the river - so it is unclear whether or not you should have been shoving on the turn. If there is "heavy betting", one pair very often isn't good. Most people aren't doing much raising on that board without being well ahead of KJ.

If you play long enough, you will lose on the river, and win on the river, so many times that you won't worry about any one of them. That is just the way poker works.
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03-28-2022 , 01:06 AM
Thank you for your point of view.(He was just a calling station) There was a lot of big betting going on in my point of view. I leaped into the pot 3 BBs, Bet a pot size bet on the flop. I saw this is as big enough to put him on the range of a draw or 1 pair himself. Though yes 1 overpair is not that great. I really didn't think he would call me down cause he was calling weakly, I expected a re-raise if he had anything better.

I definitely overplay my hands sometimes. I will make a note on KJ in future. It is really not great, others ranges could be KQ/AK/pocket Pairs/2 Pair... just the calling seemed so weak, I expected a re-raise with those hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VBAces
We have no idea how the betting went, but I don't really understand the question. Is it really "How do you avoid losing sometimes after you were ahead?"

The answer is that sometimes you are going to lose when you think you were going to win. And you survive this by playing with money you can well afford to lose. I assume that losing $5 is not going to break the bank - so just keep playing. You don't have to necessarily get your money back from that particular player - it is irrelevant who got your money. Just play good poker, and if you are a solid player then you should do fine in the long run.

A better question is whether or not you should be getting all-in with one pair and a king kicker, facing a lot of aggression. In general, the answer is no. Again, without knowing anything about your opponent, or how action was, it is hard to say whether or not you made a mistake. Obviously, knowing his hand, it is easy to say you got it all-in with the best, and he sucked out on you. But you didn't know what he had until the river - so it is unclear whether or not you should have been shoving on the turn. If there is "heavy betting", one pair very often isn't good. Most people aren't doing much raising on that board without being well ahead of KJ.

If you play long enough, you will lose on the river, and win on the river, so many times that you won't worry about any one of them. That is just the way poker works.

Last edited by AspiringPlay; 03-28-2022 at 01:12 AM.
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04-01-2022 , 11:57 PM
Not sure your full history with poker, but a 2013 start date is a long time ago.

1) You have him as a calling station .. keep betting the way your are betting, big when HU and presumably ahead.
2) All he has to say is he put you on AK/AQ and then he had 4 live cards .. or 14 outs. 'They' love to say that 'after' the suckout, sometimes even after they lose if someone at the table sees the holding. That's when you add a reinforcing comment of 'you just got unlucky there' if they miss to make sure the behavior continues. If they win you say' that's a strong hand there and you got me good'.
3) Oh yeah, you played the hand just fine

4) Being short on a bankroll is tough at times, but if you keep putting yourself in these types of spots the math says you will pull ahead. Again, I'm putting a little pause in there since you (should) be in your late 20s where hopefully you've got some play money each week/month. GL
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04-02-2022 , 12:40 PM
Is the question 'How do I avoid getting it all in when I am way ahead?' or is the question 'Won't somebody acknowledge that I got sucked out on?'

I am not sure that this is a situation you want to avoid, getting a turn call with worse. You analysis is a bit off, though, as you over commit with TPGK against a person you define as a calling station, with the logic that you are ahead of him or else he would have raised. The nature of the calling station is that they, well, call. Checking back the turn for pot control might have been a better play when you have absolutely no idea where you are at and your hand is easily dominated.
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04-02-2022 , 12:54 PM
Without knowing the action on every street, we have no clue how well you played the hand.

That said, if you got him to call the shove getting < 5:1, that's a winning play, the fact that the random order of cards in the deck rewarded villain this time is meaningless.

To repeat: winning at poker has nothing to do with who wins or loses a single hand. It has everything to do with the decisions you make during the hand based on the information you have at the time you make those decisions.
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04-03-2022 , 04:07 AM
Thank you for all the very fine remarks, very interesting perspectives and I'm learning as I go along. V had 8 outs but I didn't know that and I could of maybe played a different hand but this would of been ideal since his I think his odds of winning this hand on the Turn when I shoved was less than 15.91%. Next time I will DL the hand when I share it for more precise analysis!

Of course I should likely have not got so deeply involved here in a 5 NL Cash game. Overplaying my hand is my issue and sometimes it works other times I get caught or smacked. I am attempting to just build a small bankroll of a few thousand and learn and read, youtube/youtube and read and learn.

I have sooooo MUCH to learn!
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04-04-2022 , 08:08 AM
It sounds like you do study the game .. or at least some of your hands .. but your last comment really shows (to me) that you're not really taking in the comments fully.

Don't change anything about this hand when playing this type of an opponent. By your own admission you are going to lose 15.91% of the time. 16 out of 100 is still a lot of losses but you would still be ahead in the worst possible situation.

Let's say you went all-in for the size of the pot (100) but V only called the 16 times he was going to win ..
1) You 'win' 200 chips 84 times .. That is 16,800 chips going into your stack, 8400 of which was already in the middle
2) V will take in a pot of 300 chips 16 times .. That's only 4800 chips

Let's say you check it down, so no action, and you end up at Showdown with no more chips being put into the pot ..
1) You win 100 chips 84 times .. 8400 into your stack
2) V will win 100 chips 16 times .. 1600 into their stack

Almost every comment here is trying to get you to look at this spot in this way and yet you are still putting effort into the losses. That is not a good use of your time and also an indicator that your probably need to work on the mental side of the game rather than the mechanics of the game.

This forum is the place that offers lots of information, but if you aren't receiving that information into your poker mindset it will be difficult to grow in the game. GL
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04-04-2022 , 11:01 AM
OP, maybe this will help clarify what others are trying to say. Suppose you have a villain that will call a bet of any amount. Suppose also (just for the sake of simplicity) that there is no other money involved other than what is being bet by you. You may bet any amount from zero to your whole stack, and villain will call. The question is, under these assumptions what percentage chance of winning do you need to bet, and how much should you bet?

It should be clear, assuming you are using good bankroll management, that your bet size should either be zero (in the cases where it is unprofitable to bet) or all in (when it is profitable). The only question is when is it profitable? That one’s easy since there is no other money involved. You break even over many repetitions if you win 50% of the time. You should therefore not bet if you win less than 50%, bet all in if you win more often. (The all in bet amount may not be entirely true depending on how many buyins you have in your roll, but I’m assuming an overrolled player for this analysis, google “Kelly Criterion” if you are interested in a more detailed mathematical analysis of how much you should bet in a marginally favorable game to maximize profit and minimize risk of busting).

In your example, you have WAY more than a 50% winning chance when you shoved. Assuming you have a good read that your villain is weak and will call a large bet with only a draw, you made the right play. The fact that he won is irrelevant. Now, if your point is not specific to the hand you posted, but more like the point that playing top pair good kicker hands by habitually shoving the turn, even against strong opponents who wonÂ’t call with draws because they are not getting proper odds, but will call with two pairs, sets, etc., then you have a point regarding overplaying hands like these. In a spot like this, though, where villain calls with a draw, stop beating yourself up over it. You played it well and just got unlucky.
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