I just had this insight today, and thought to share it with the beginners. I am sure this is not an original thought - but I hadn't read too much about it in this forum, at least.
Its often said that the reason you play hands like suited connectors, low pocket pairs, etc., is for the IMPLIED ODDS which those hands provide. In theory, I understand this perfectly well - but in practice (and most of my practice is in live 1-2/2-5 games), I have found that these hands rarely provide much implied odds at all. If you play a hand like 6h 7h, for example, and the flop comes Kh 8h 5c, your opponents can generally see the draws and if you hit them, you don't get paid.
So the insight I have had is that there are many more situations where implied odds exist on the flop instead of pre-flop. An example from today's lunchtime session:
In the big blind, I hold Tc 9c. It is limped around by most of the table. The flop is Qc 8s 5h. I check, EP leads out with a 2/3 pot sized bet, and its folded around to me. I guess he has a good queen; maybe KQ or AQ. Its also possible that he has two pair or a set or air. Looking at the flop, I have a backdoor flush draw, a backdoor straight draw, and either running 9s or running Ts would probably give me the best hand. This is not a lot of outs - I don't usually get real detailed with the out count and the pot odds, but I realized it was a long shot to make any kind of hand. On the other hand, whatever the turn card was, I would be able to reevaluate and probably ditch the hand. And if my cards came, villain had about 150 bbs behind - making the implied odds for his stack roughly 15 to 1.
To sum up my insight: implied odds are an important POST flop concept, but not much of a pre-flop concept (at least, in most situations).
all i see from this post is "i took 2.5 to 1 odds on a 11.75 to 1 shot of making my gutshot". sorry but the whole post doesn't make much sense to me at all. PF implied odds are a VERY important part of NLHE AND u shoulda folded that Tc9c hand on the flop.
all i see from this post is "i took 2.5 to 1 odds on a 11.75 to 1 shot of making my gutshot". sorry but the whole post doesn't make much sense to me at all. PF implied odds are a VERY important part of NLHE AND u shoulda folded that Tc9c hand on the flop.
Well, I didn't actually post whether I called or not, or any results. I simply laid out what went through my head, and how I felt a lightbulb come on.
in the first example you gave where you had a flush draw and straight draw and are saying people wont call when you hit the draw, the simple answer to that is dont wait to hit ur draw before pushing. if they have top pair and bet, raise them. if they play back at u shove. U have a monster draw, you have to gamble there. thats how you get all the money, IMO.
