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i'm lovin the stats but not the results i'm lovin the stats but not the results
View Poll Results: your attempt to steal is...
too low
6 25.00%
just right
3 12.50%
too high
15 62.50%

07-19-2008 , 08:07 PM


maybe i need to figure out how to get that river AF up a little? i am quite the thief however.

/vent
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 09:23 PM
Depends who is in the blind, my mouth waters when I see someone with that high of steal.

If it works, it works. Keep doing it, but you might get a decent person in your blinds that notices it, beware of that.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 09:29 PM
Is there anyway to see the success rate of your stealing attempts like in HM, in PT2? Because that would help, maybe your losing money over there?
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsUnLmtD
Is there anyway to see the success rate of your stealing attempts like in HM, in PT2? Because that would help, maybe your losing money over there?
I've been playing with PT2 filters a bit lately, and I'm guessing you would go chance to steal and raised, then won pot without showdown to check how much you successfully stole, then folded before showdown to see how much you lost and then subtract one from the other, am I right? and I guess check the went to showdown values also
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 11:14 PM
your flop AF looks stupid high.
7 hands is nothing, and most likely you will crush nits given a larger sample./
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 11:45 PM
Okay, just had a 56% steal person to my right, it's *EXTREMELY* exploitable, so watch for decent players to your left.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 11:49 PM
how exactly do you exploit it?
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-19-2008 , 11:56 PM
3 bet light all day long and use my superior post flop skills? :P (Usually 3 bet everytime he stole from the CO, he didn't adjust = fail = me win)
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 03:22 AM
I voted too high but really it's a very relative thing. It's possible that it is fine.


Now you are playing a bit of a loose game 26.7/22.6. And you are playing quite aggresive post-flop. Your flop and turn AF's are I believe the highest I have ever seen and so is your total AF.

You seem to defend your big blind quite often also. I think too much and you may be leaking there.



To be honest I would fairly blindly guess that you're probably not at this point a good enough post-flop player to be playing that loose pre-flop. And you aggression numbers really do seem out of whack and quite a bit too high. So I would guess that there's a decent chance something just isn't quite right.



However, you are only down a bit more than 1 BI over 7K hands. Not really too big a deal. That could very easily happen to a winning player......could easily be worse.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzerthebruzer
3 bet light all day long
this is super exploitable too

im a stealing maniac and I prefer a guy like you on my left to a guy who folds everytime. its more profitable in the long run.

just sayin'

there's no question that your 3bet range should depend on how often the guy attempts to steal. just dont go crazy with it. ive had a lot of guys stack off from the blinds with crap like K5s because their ego couldn't believe I actually had a hand.

at uNL full ring Ive noticed that the players who defend their blinds are usually the worst players. they dont know when to stop and when to adjust to the fact that you stopped trying to steal every round.

Last edited by WorldsUnluckiest; 07-20-2008 at 12:13 PM.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
this is super exploitable too
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzerthebruzer
3 bet light all day long and use my superior post flop skills? :P (Usually 3 bet everytime he stole from the CO, he didn't adjust = fail = me win)
.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 05:38 PM
Att. steal blinds is a relative thing. If there's nits in the blinds yours is too low, if there's competent players who'll 3bet you frequently it's on the high side.

Your low WtSD and high AFs point to a problem though. This could potentially means a few things.

- It's possible that you don't call enough postflop when it's likely you're good. Playing this style (27/23) you'll get played back at a lot more then other players. It's necessary to peel a street or two sometimes with weak top pair/underpair/middle pair type hands to try to get to showdown. This is obviously a lot easier in position.

- It's possible you're raising top pair type hands in WA/WB spots where calling is infinitely better unless you're against an extremely weak player or a reg that you have a lot of history of raising/check raising flops against.

- It's possible you're auto cbetting with 100% of your range when checking back things like weak top pairs/middle pairs/bottom pairs/ace high etc. is better because it's unlikely you'll be called by worse and you can't continue to a check raise. Doing this will also force you to call more often on future streets because you're more likely to have induced a bluff or two.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJoker
Att. steal blinds is a relative thing. If there's nits in the blinds yours is too low, if there's competent players who'll 3bet you frequently it's on the high side.

Your low WtSD and high AFs point to a problem though. This could potentially means a few things.

- It's possible that you don't call enough postflop when it's likely you're good. Playing this style (27/23) you'll get played back at a lot more then other players. It's necessary to peel a street or two sometimes with weak top pair/underpair/middle pair type hands to try to get to showdown. This is obviously a lot easier in position.

- It's possible you're raising top pair type hands in WA/WB spots where calling is infinitely better unless you're against an extremely weak player or a reg that you have a lot of history of raising/check raising flops against.

- It's possible you're auto cbetting with 100% of your range when checking back things like weak top pairs/middle pairs/bottom pairs/ace high etc. is better because it's unlikely you'll be called by worse and you can't continue to a check raise. Doing this will also force you to call more often on future streets because you're more likely to have induced a bluff or two.

ya i've been trying to work on calling more post flop but it just seems like i'm ALWAYS wrong. heres an example of another one where i am calling light because the villian seemed like such a donk. he was running 35/25, randomly open shoving pf sometimes, raising and showing bluffs post flop, and yet he magically has it the time i decide to take a stand.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $55.20
SB: $57.90
BB: $55.85
UTG: $29.45
Hero (CO): $44.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with J J
UTG raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.75, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.75

Flop: ($8.25) Q 8 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4.70, UTG raises to $25.70 all in, Hero calls $21

Turn: ($59.65) J

River: ($59.65) 2

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $59.65
UTG shows Qc Th (two pair, Queens and Twos)
Hero shows Jh Jc (a full house, Jacks full of Twos)
Hero wins $56.70
(Rake: $2.95)
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 09:03 PM
lol look at that flop aggression. Do you cont bet every single flop?
you might be leaking money there.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBender
lol look at that flop aggression. Do you cont bet every single flop?
you might be leaking money there.
every flop that is HU yes
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69
every flop that is HU yes

huge leak imo. Any observant player punishes u and cbettting TJ3 type board always is a major leak you need to plug. Checking behind some flops is good because it makes your hand more undefined.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-20-2008 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBender
huge leak imo. Any observant player punishes u and cbettting TJ3 type board always is a major leak you need to plug. Checking behind some flops is good because it makes your hand more undefined.
i dunno, i'm taking it down most of the time on the flop
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-21-2008 , 02:15 PM
I c-bet nearly every HU pot as well, but my flop AF is about half of yours.

I dunno where it is , but I think you are probably raising and/or folding in spots where you should be calling.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-21-2008 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I c-bet nearly every HU pot as well, but my flop AF is about half of yours.

I dunno where it is , but I think you are probably raising and/or folding in spots where you should be calling.
well if i cold call a weak tight player and he checks it to me on the flop i am betting also. maybe you dont have as many weak tights in your games?
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-21-2008 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldsUnluckiest
this is super exploitable too

im a stealing maniac and I prefer a guy like you on my left to a guy who folds everytime. its more profitable in the long run.

just sayin'

there's no question that your 3bet range should depend on how often the guy attempts to steal. just dont go crazy with it. ive had a lot of guys stack off from the blinds with crap like K5s because their ego couldn't believe I actually had a hand.

at uNL full ring Ive noticed that the players who defend their blinds are usually the worst players. they dont know when to stop and when to adjust to the fact that you stopped trying to steal every round.
you were so lucky that K5s didn't suckout ^^
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-21-2008 , 04:02 PM
heres another hand where i experimented with calling when the tag c/r's me. not sure how can fold on the turn though after just calling the flop and then river is a good card

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $42.85
Hero (UTG): $50.25
MP: $71.75
CO: $57.15
BTN: $48.90
SB: $49.50

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.00) 4 A 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $9, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($22.00) Q (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($52.00) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $23.75 all in, Hero calls $23.75

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $99.50
Hero mucks Kc As
SB shows Qh Ad (two pair, Aces and Queens)
SB wins $96.50
(Rake: $3.00)


again **** just always backfires i don't get it
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-21-2008 , 06:00 PM
Hands like that with AK are hard to get away from... as played, I'd have folded the turn because I'm a nit. I dont see anybody playing like that with a hand we beat.

I'd have played a bit different right from the start though, I really dont like the $1.75 preflop opening bet sizing. id have probably fold/shoved the flop in response to a 3bet after having made bigger preflop and flop bets than you have, depending on how I think the villain is playing.

but then again i havent been a winning player at 50nl so youd probably be better off posting your hand in the microstakes forum


you made a small preflop bet and the opponent simply called, so a set isn't too unlikely... $1.75 is a great price to setmine a pair of 4's or 7's.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-22-2008 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69
ya i've been trying to work on calling more post flop but it just seems like i'm ALWAYS wrong. heres an example of another one where i am calling light because the villian seemed like such a donk. he was running 35/25, randomly open shoving pf sometimes, raising and showing bluffs post flop, and yet he magically has it the time i decide to take a stand.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $55.20
SB: $57.90
BB: $55.85
UTG: $29.45
Hero (CO): $44.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with J J
UTG raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.75, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.75

Flop: ($8.25) Q 8 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4.70, UTG raises to $25.70 all in, Hero calls $21

Turn: ($59.65) J

River: ($59.65) 2

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $59.65
UTG shows Qc Th (two pair, Queens and Twos)
Hero shows Jh Jc (a full house, Jacks full of Twos)
Hero wins $56.70
(Rake: $2.95)
Here you're in a WA/WB spot. If you're ahead villain probably only has 5 outs at most and if you're behind then you've only got 2 outs. The board is very dry, there's no draws he can semi-bluff shove or call down with so a bet here is just looking for value from 2nd pair/underpair/bottom pair hands.

Since there's very little need to protect your hand and there's not much need to build the pot since it's a 3bet pot and big enough to get stacks in on the turn and river, especially since he's a little short, I'd frequently check behind. Also you should have auto reload on (I thought they had that on fulltilt). By checking here we also make his bluffing range MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger and calling down becomes trivially easy.

Once you've bet I'm never folding though. Bet folding with JJ would be pretty sick and I'd make a decision of whether I wanted to bet call or check to induce and call down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69
every flop that is HU yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69
i dunno, i'm taking it down most of the time on the flop
Put some more thought into it. You need to be thinking about flop texture, your image, history, your opponent's tendencies, your opponent's range, your hand strength, etc., etc.

There's some pretty good discussion in this post that should help get you thinking about how to play different hand strengths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69
heres another hand where i experimented with calling when the tag c/r's me. not sure how can fold on the turn though after just calling the flop and then river is a good card

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $42.85
Hero (UTG): $50.25
MP: $71.75
CO: $57.15
BTN: $48.90
SB: $49.50

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.00) 4 A 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $9, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($22.00) Q (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($52.00) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $23.75 all in, Hero calls $23.75

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $99.50
Hero mucks Kc As
SB shows Qh Ad (two pair, Aces and Queens)
SB wins $96.50
(Rake: $3.00)


again **** just always backfires i don't get it
This is a pretty awkward spot and it really depends on his preflop calling range and postflop tendencies.

If he calls preflop with SCs then we can put things like 65s in his range.

If he calls with high card hands like AQ/AJ/KQ then there's more strong top pair type hands in there, we also need to know if he's bad enough to raise those hands. What I mean is that he's in a WA/WB spot and you have a really tough decision about whether to continue with AK so his raise is almost a bluff more then anything else and turning AQ on A74r into a bluff is pretty brutal. There's no logical reason to raise there in that spot. If there was a lot of history of c/ring dry flops then doing it for value is fine, if you were a donk then doing it for value is fine and, at higher stakes, doing it so you can c/r bluff dry A high flops more frequently in future is o.k.

Almost all TAGs at 50nl will always call with PPs here though so 44 and 77 are a big part of his range. Some TAGs will slowplay because they view you as a LAG who'll fire multiple barrels frequently so they might not always c/r here but sets are still a big part of their range.

Some players might also call with suited aces so something like A4s or A7s become a part of their range but i think it's pretty unlikely most of the time.

Without more detailed reads I'd tend to just call down here.

Your preflop open sizes are fine btw.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote
07-22-2008 , 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairtheboard69

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $55.20
SB: $57.90
BB: $55.85
UTG: $29.45
Hero (CO): $44.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with J J
UTG raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.75, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.75

Flop: ($8.25) Q 8 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4.70, UTG raises to $25.70 all in, Hero calls $21

Turn: ($59.65) J

River: ($59.65) 2

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $59.65
UTG shows Qc Th (two pair, Queens and Twos)
Hero shows Jh Jc (a full house, Jacks full of Twos)
Hero wins $56.70
(Rake: $2.95)

Check behind the flop here. As played fold to his shove. It is pretty bad to bet/fold, but you really shouldn't be doing the betting on this flop and after he shoves you beat nothing except a complete bluff. Just check behind the flop and go to the turn.
i'm lovin the stats but not the results Quote

      
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