Hello,

So I'm holding Ace Queen offsuit on the big blind.

Button raises. SB raises at 3x. button folds. I call.

Flop comes 8KQhdh

.
Check check on the flop.

turn comes a 9h.

check from villian. 1/2 bet from me. Called by villian on the turn.

River is the Qs

check from villian on the river.

I'm looking at this flush board with 3 of a kind queens. There was a large 3 bet from villian pre and now he's just calling my bets on these streets.

I know I'm holding the blocker to the nut flush. That leaves a king that would have part of the flush but not many King x would raise so high on the SB. Maybe KQs? Only 1 combo has caught this board.

Maybe villain has slow played a pair of Kings? Only 3 combos of kings though.

I ultimately decided to just check back the river.

Did I miss out here?

What would you do on the river and/or through this hand?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/5256ZLyN3

I don't consider the river that important - preflop I'm either shoving or folding. You have a possibly wide open, and a 3-bet that is potentially someone just going after a potentially wide open. If that is the case, and this has been happening a lot, I'll probably just get it in and not worry about it. But if these players are playing fairly standard, I'm not calling a 3-bet when I'm not closing the action. If I call, and the button jams, I'm definitely folding.

In this case, it is hard to imagine what villain will call you with if you shove, that you beat. You have a good hand, but is he calling with JJ, or AK? And if he had AK, would he have checked the flop?

I'm sure some people would go ahead and go for value, but you can win at showdown a lot, but probably are losing if he calls. But then, some people are terrible - so you never know what they might call you with.

Also, your comment of not many Kx would raise so high. What does that mean - what he did was 3-bet to 4x the raise from out of position - this is just a normal 3-bet.

Oh you're right about the 4x raise OOP. I learned that but forgot. I also thought the SB could be trying to defend against a classic button steal but I disregarded it for now as I had very little on the villians and I figured making that assumption without any data could go either way (great or get me in big trouble with hands like AK, AA, KK, QQ, ETC that have me dominated.

Thanks for your feedback.

how can you give this pre flop advice when you don't know how deep they are or if its a tourney or cash game?

How can you make this comment, when you can just click on the link given and see that how deep they are and that it is almost certainly a tourney?

Did you follow the link OP posted? It is a $30 BI tourney with effective stacks of about 70 BB. (BB is 150, villain has smaller stack, about 10500).

So what did he have ?
It looks like maybe
J 10 maybe 9 10 of hearts ?
OR
JJ ?

As played him having AK or 88
Isn't making a lot if sense

A lot would depend on any history with the V. If we've been tangling a lot then I can read into their checking 3 streets after a PF 3-bet. I can also come to some conclusions as to how sticky/loose they've been on River calls. We also have to consider their image of our playing style and how it will affect their River decisions.

It's very tempting to try for 'thin' value in these spots, but I tend to error on the conservative side in tournaments. As noted above, what's calling that you beat?

Again, based on history, will this V shove over a weak looking bet? If so, then you have to be prepared to call off if you don't shove yourself. If not, then I don't mind going for some thin value and perhaps AA/Kx/Qx hands will call off. Perhaps even some smaller flushes are just ready to x/c the River as well.

It's just very rare for a Player to x/c three streets without some decent Showdown value .. so you have to consider what they consider to be 'decent'.

IMO this Player has a smaller PP (perhaps with a heart) that just wants to get to Showdown. They didn't protect against the flush, they didn't bet when the flush hit and now they don't bet when the Board pairs .. that certainly signals a weak holding.

There's no shame in taking a Showdown with this holding. I'm not so sure it's a shove/fold PF but that's for the tournament Regs to determine. You're fairly deep but you do have to consider that you might get shoved on by the Button.

I'd love to get another 2000 out of this hand .. if not just be able to muck taking it down. But is it worth the effort when you may have to face folding and dropping down to 30-ish BB this early in the tournament or just calling it off based on odds? GL