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how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL)

09-21-2024 , 07:40 PM
How do I make analyzing poker sessions easier to understand? What programs can I use to explain to me what I'm doing wrong or poorly and what things in my game I may need to change? (i understand there are GTO things I can look at similar to a chess engine) But I am worried that I wont be able to understand any spots or results it spits out.

I want to be able to get understandable feedback for how I am playing my hands in poker. (most online blog posts use a lot of numbers/math that make my head spin) and on top of that they somehow pick and choose what their villian's hands are when analyzing spots (which I KNOW for a fact I wouldnt be able to dechiper myself)

Wish there was some easy way to just put my hands out somewhere and get simplified answers to what I did wrong and how to improve it
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
09-22-2024 , 12:13 PM
Start by asking questions. What exactly about the math and numbers donÂ’t you understand? If you want to really understand poker, there really is no way around it; youÂ’re going to have to learn at least some basic math. Poker at is essence is a game of mathematics. If you donÂ’t understand something ask.

As for villain’s hands, I highly doubt anyone ever is posting as if they know villain’s specific hand. The idea that you can narrow villain down to a specific hand is bogus. What you can do and what likely is being discussed is narrowing villain down to a certain range of hands. If you see things like “villain will have TT+, AT-AT+s, KQs, AQo” that is an example of this. Part of learning poker is learning how to range opponents, but much of this comes from practice and experience. There’s really no simplified way to do it. A good start is to look up and learn some preflop starting hand charts. These will help you understand the types of hands that villains should have when involved in a pot.

Additionally, without really knowing how you play, this will likely fix the most common thing that you probably are doing wrong. Almost all beginners play way too many hands. I see beginners play hands like K6o, Q8o, A7o and similar. These are garbage — fold PF all the time with these (at least until you learn to play better post flop; there may be situations where you’d want to play hands like these, but not until you get better). Play mostly premium hands - large pairs and AK. Throw in some second tier hands (AT-AQ, KQ, medium to small pairs), and as you get better some more speculative hands (suited connectors and some smaller broadways). Fold everything else.

The next thing you probably are doing wrong is that you likely aren’t playing aggressively enough preflop. If the action is folded to you, and you have a hand that is playable, raise, don’t limp. It doesn’t matter if it’s AA or 87s — if you aren’t folding, raise. Use the same size no matter what hand you have (At 2NL a size of $0.05 plus 0.02 for each limper is probably good).

One of the stats you probably see is VPIP/PFR/3Bet. VPIP stands for “voluntarily put in pot” and is the percentage of hands that you put in money not counting the blinds. This should be no more than about 30-35%, and even lower when you are starting out. PFR is “pre flop raise” and is the percentage of hands that you raised pre flop. Ideally this should be almost the same as your VPIP. The third of these is the percentage you three bet pre flop (meaning you raised after another player raised). That usually should be around 8-10 to start (and maybe a bit higher as your postflop play improves). If you have software that can track these stats, this can help you see what you’re doing wrong. If you are at something like 30/28/8 that’s good. Beginners usually are more like 75/20/3, which is terrible. That stat line means too many hands played, with too little aggression.

Finally, post specifics, especially hands that you think well represent how you usually play. It’s much easier to give advice on specific play than just answer “what am I doing wrong” in general.
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
09-23-2024 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stremba70
Start by asking questions. What exactly about the math and numbers donÂ’t you understand? If you want to really understand poker, there really is no way around it; youÂ’re going to have to learn at least some basic math. Poker at is essence is a game of mathematics. If you donÂ’t understand something ask.

As for villain’s hands, I highly doubt anyone ever is posting as if they know villain’s specific hand. The idea that you can narrow villain down to a specific hand is bogus. What you can do and what likely is being discussed is narrowing villain down to a certain range of hands. If you see things like “villain will have TT+, AT-AT+s, KQs, AQo” that is an example of this. Part of learning poker is learning how to range opponents, but much of this comes from practice and experience. There’s really no simplified way to do it. A good start is to look up and learn some preflop starting hand charts. These will help you understand the types of hands that villains should have when involved in a pot.

Additionally, without really knowing how you play, this will likely fix the most common thing that you probably are doing wrong. Almost all beginners play way too many hands. I see beginners play hands like K6o, Q8o, A7o and similar. These are garbage — fold PF all the time with these (at least until you learn to play better post flop; there may be situations where you’d want to play hands like these, but not until you get better). Play mostly premium hands - large pairs and AK. Throw in some second tier hands (AT-AQ, KQ, medium to small pairs), and as you get better some more speculative hands (suited connectors and some smaller broadways). Fold everything else.

The next thing you probably are doing wrong is that you likely aren’t playing aggressively enough preflop. If the action is folded to you, and you have a hand that is playable, raise, don’t limp. It doesn’t matter if it’s AA or 87s — if you aren’t folding, raise. Use the same size no matter what hand you have (At 2NL a size of $0.05 plus 0.02 for each limper is probably good).

One of the stats you probably see is VPIP/PFR/3Bet. VPIP stands for “voluntarily put in pot” and is the percentage of hands that you put in money not counting the blinds. This should be no more than about 30-35%, and even lower when you are starting out. PFR is “pre flop raise” and is the percentage of hands that you raised pre flop. Ideally this should be almost the same as your VPIP. The third of these is the percentage you three bet pre flop (meaning you raised after another player raised). That usually should be around 8-10 to start (and maybe a bit higher as your postflop play improves). If you have software that can track these stats, this can help you see what you’re doing wrong. If you are at something like 30/28/8 that’s good. Beginners usually are more like 75/20/3, which is terrible. That stat line means too many hands played, with too little aggression.

Finally, post specifics, especially hands that you think well represent how you usually play. It’s much easier to give advice on specific play than just answer “what am I doing wrong” in general.
Thank you for this! I was mainly looking for an easy go-to to self analyze my poker hands instead of having to forum post each one to get a person's perspective. I thought some sort of GTO thing might help but I guess it is easier to just post some random hands in some forum and see what people think.

Note: is it ok to post hands where I may not be using a HUD? (say games via mobile) as I understand some may what to know what my opponent is like and could help them furhter understand a poker spot im asking about? Or should I only ask about hands I have played using the HUD?

I am fairly new so my HUD stats on players are spotty at best.

I think my VPIP/PFR/3Bet is 40/30/19 which I admit is a bit high and aggressive. Going to try and tighten my range a little bit and tighten 3 bet range too. thanks! Any forums suggest for posting hand analysis help for beginner hand advice 2NL?
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
09-24-2024 , 10:57 AM
Online cash forum is best. If you have no stats on villains that isnÂ’t a problem. Villain stats can help with analysis, but arenÂ’t strictly necessary. After all, we often run into villains who are unknowns or for whom we have only limited stats. Feel free to post hands whether or not you have stats.

Just two things about posting hands: donÂ’t post obvious bad beat hands or obvious coolers. For example, villain opens PF to 3BB, hero with KK raises to 9bb, villain four bets to 20, hero shoves 100bb. Villain shows AA - thatÂ’s an obvious cooler and could not be played any differently. DonÂ’t post hands like that. Post hands where you had tough decisions that you really did not know what you should do, not just hands where you lost big pots. Consider posting hands you won too. Beginners often overlook hands win thinking they must have played it right. This isnÂ’t necessarily the case.

The other is do NOT post results, or at least donÂ’t do so until after people have had a chance to discuss the decisions involved in the hand. Something like hero on BTN with QhQd all fold hero raises to 2.5BB, SB folds, BB calls. Flop is Ks 7s 4h. BB checks hero bets 2bb, BB raises to 8, hero? Stop right there and donÂ’t post anything else about the rest of the hand - we have all the info you had at the time. ThatÂ’s the best way to get good analysis.

As for stats and GTO and the like, get good at fundamentals first and quit worrying about that. Starting out in 2NL you donÂ’t really need that. You do need to learn about range construction and balancing, pot odds and implied odds, and other basic fundamentals first. If you have mastered those (and you should be able to crush 2NL if you really do have the fundamentals mastered) then start looking at more advanced concepts.

As for your stats, yeah youÂ’re a bit loose (but not horrible - I’ve seen worse a t 2NL), but not overly aggressive. For a VPIP of 40, your PFR should be a good bit higher than 40, more like 36-37. With that many hands played, I wouldnÂ’t argue with your higher 3 bet either, but if you want to bring that down (and you should if you tighten your opening range), make sure you do so by folding to 3 bets more rather than calling. This is true especially at 2NL. There are exceptions (and those will become obvious quickly) but most villains are overly loose and overly passive at 2NL. These villains often play too many hands, so raise a decently wide range against them, but only get aggressive with big hands. Hence fold to their raises more and only three bet when you have a premium hand yourself.
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
09-26-2024 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stremba70
Online cash forum is best. If you have no stats on villains that isnÂ’t a problem. Villain stats can help with analysis, but arenÂ’t strictly necessary. After all, we often run into villains who are unknowns or for whom we have only limited stats. Feel free to post hands whether or not you have stats.

Just two things about posting hands: donÂ’t post obvious bad beat hands or obvious coolers. For example, villain opens PF to 3BB, hero with KK raises to 9bb, villain four bets to 20, hero shoves 100bb. Villain shows AA - thatÂ’s an obvious cooler and could not be played any differently. DonÂ’t post hands like that. Post hands where you had tough decisions that you really did not know what you should do, not just hands where you lost big pots. Consider posting hands you won too. Beginners often overlook hands win thinking they must have played it right. This isnÂ’t necessarily the case.

The other is do NOT post results, or at least donÂ’t do so until after people have had a chance to discuss the decisions involved in the hand. Something like hero on BTN with QhQd all fold hero raises to 2.5BB, SB folds, BB calls. Flop is Ks 7s 4h. BB checks hero bets 2bb, BB raises to 8, hero? Stop right there and donÂ’t post anything else about the rest of the hand - we have all the info you had at the time. ThatÂ’s the best way to get good analysis.

As for stats and GTO and the like, get good at fundamentals first and quit worrying about that. Starting out in 2NL you donÂ’t really need that. You do need to learn about range construction and balancing, pot odds and implied odds, and other basic fundamentals first. If you have mastered those (and you should be able to crush 2NL if you really do have the fundamentals mastered) then start looking at more advanced concepts.

As for your stats, yeah youÂ’re a bit loose (but not horrible - I’ve seen worse a t 2NL), but not overly aggressive. For a VPIP of 40, your PFR should be a good bit higher than 40, more like 36-37. With that many hands played, I wouldnÂ’t argue with your higher 3 bet either, but if you want to bring that down (and you should if you tighten your opening range), make sure you do so by folding to 3 bets more rather than calling. This is true especially at 2NL. There are exceptions (and those will become obvious quickly) but most villains are overly loose and overly passive at 2NL. These villains often play too many hands, so raise a decently wide range against them, but only get aggressive with big hands. Hence fold to their raises more and only three bet when you have a premium hand yourself.
how do I get good at fundamentals? just keep posting hands and asking what I should be doing as a beginner?
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
09-27-2024 , 11:03 AM
Upswingpoker.com has some good articles. It’s not a bad place to start. There are other sites around. Upswing has preflop charts too; definitely look at those and learn them
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
10-05-2024 , 07:55 PM
After sesh go over top losing hands. There are only about 6 or so main spots in poker (how you break them down is up to you, but for example I would class all SRP IP v OOP as one spot - even if of course there is some variation between positions). But if you're having lots of instances of certain spots in those hands (e.g. 3b pots OOP) that is a good sign of where to direct study.

You could also tag hands you f-ed up to replay later. Forcing yourself into the same spot blindly days later and seeing if you can apply what you learnt is a good technique for incorporation.
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
10-05-2024 , 10:27 PM
Experience. Most things that you begin doing for the first few times are sloppy and inefficient. Just keep plugging away and stay curious

I think some trackers have built in stat checkers that you can use. DriveHUD for example has a LeakBuster add-on that does exactly what you said -> upload hands and it will tell you where to look for leaks and how to improve
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
10-07-2024 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceres
After sesh go over top losing hands. There are only about 6 or so main spots in poker (how you break them down is up to you, but for example I would class all SRP IP v OOP as one spot - even if of course there is some variation between positions). But if you're having lots of instances of certain spots in those hands (e.g. 3b pots OOP) that is a good sign of where to direct study.

You could also tag hands you f-ed up to replay later. Forcing yourself into the same spot blindly days later and seeing if you can apply what you learnt is a good technique for incorporation.
Certainly reviewing losing hands is good advice, but don’t ignore hands you win either. One of the reasons poker is hard to learn is that the immediate feedback you get from your decisions often does not correlate with the quality of your decision making. You can totally botch a hand and wind up winning a big pot. You can play a hand perfectly and lose your whole stack. Immediate results truly are not a good measure of how well you played. Look for hands where you truly were confused and were just kind of guessing about what you should have done, regardless of whether you won or lost the hand. Review those and post some on here for feedback.
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
10-17-2024 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobojoe99
I think my VPIP/PFR/3Bet is 40/30/19 which I admit is a bit high and aggressive.
6max? It's maniac tier lol.
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote
10-20-2024 , 08:38 AM
Honestly this is hard for me (another noob) as well. Even when i look at a hand i didnt think i played well, i often dont know what to look for and how to approach it. There is a lot of free stuff online, but a huge part of it just tells you what to do without focusing on why (for example, a lot of strategy videos on youtube are just guys reading solver charts to you without explaining much). What i ended up with is that i can fit an explanation to pretty much any play, and explain with smart poker words why it is good, but i often dont know which play is actually good and which is me working back from the answer that i want to give intuitively or emotionally. It is exacerbated with the lack of time during play (on ACR thats 15s per action + 30s timebank for your whole game at the table pretty much). This often results in my thinking process being, lets put it nicely, messy during the hands i play.

During the analysis, i try to focus on these hands where i didnt think it through, didnt have time or didnt know what to do. I go action by action, asking myself the same questions i try to think about during play, but with more time and less emotions - like whats the opponents range, who has range/nut advantage on the board and by how much, what hands am i targeting with my next action (ie what im trying to fold or get value from) etc. If i dont know the answer or the hand in general makes no sense, i look for information online (there is really a lot of free content out there). I also found that writing my thoughts and actions down helped me realize where i was wrong (i was going to post a hand for analysis, but while i was typing i realized that it was crystal clear that i played it wrong). You can post hand histories in this forum too, people are really helpful.

For putting people on ranges, you usually go by process of elimination or working backwards and looking at the action. The most basic examples are preflop - lets say you raise utg and the villain calls in the big blind. You know that he should have a range with a lot of hands, but he probably doesnt have complete junk like T6o nor his best hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK etc - he would have probably 3bet those (you can look up optimal ranges in a lot of places online). Now when the flop comes AsKh9d, you bet and he calls, you know that he probably doesnt have 8c4c anymore - he might have a pair (including Ax, Kx, 9x or a pocket pair), 4 combos of 2pair w Ac9c, Kc9c, As9h, Ks9s, pocket 99 for a set or some kind of a draw. Etc etc. Of course, you adjust the "good" ranges if you see that your opponents deviate from normal play. If you know your opponent is a nit and would not raise with anything but aces, he might have KK on the flop. If your opponent is a loose passive fish who doesnt have a fold button, he might call on that flop with 86o etc. I wouldnt adjust the ranges that you put your opponents on too much from the norm though, except for the most egregious cases.

I also really liked this post that i found that helps you learn to think on a basic level:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...l-50nl-367707/

Good luck
how to simplify analysis? (beginner poker player 2NL) Quote

      
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