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How do you play small pocket pairs? How do you play small pocket pairs?

01-18-2017 , 09:59 AM
What's up guys?
So, I have been playing for around 4 months in casinos, and I keep running into the small pocket pairs like 2-2 through 6-6. How do you guys play these in early and late positions? in the blinds, would you raise pre-flop, and would you call a 3-bet or 4-bet?
Thanks,
OilSpill
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-18-2017 , 10:43 AM
do not raise these hands from the blinds against limpers. fold them in early position.
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-18-2017 , 11:58 AM
In loose/passive 1/2 games, you can get away with limping small pairs from EP because nobody is going to raise anyway unless they have a premium hand. If there are active players behind you who actually raise >10% of their hands preflop, you can just fold them.

Late position depends on what the players in front of you did. I definitely wouldn't call a 3bet, but calling a small raise maight be OK depending on stack sizes.

From the blinds, I'd just complete/check if it's limped to you. Against a raise, you have to check the stack to pot ratio and keep in mind that you are out of position postflop. Against a single raiser, small pairs are usually a fold in that spot. Calling against a 3bet or 4bet is burning money without specific reads/history.
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01-18-2017 , 12:19 PM
I generally limp these hands in early position. If there's a raise later, I'll just evaluate based on sizing whether I have set-mining odds or not. Often it's the case that you do have odds to call a single raise and still profitably set-mine. I also see no problem in just folding these hands in early position, on the theory that it's hard to get paid when OOP. I would basically never raise them. While we often have the implied odds to call a single raise, we'll rarely have stack sizes that give us the implied odds to call a 3-bet. For that reason I'd almost never call a 3- or 4-bet with these hands.
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-18-2017 , 04:28 PM
There are a lot of things you can do with PP to establish a table image. As you can see there are opinions that are very different. We have a saying at the games in our area .. "The smaller the pair, the bigger the raise." Lots of players would just assume bet big and take down a small pot.

You certainly don't want to get into the habit of calling raises with small PP and end up folding a lot of Flops.

The one thing I would say with the smallest range of PP (22-66, maybe even 99) is that you want to make sure that the pot and/or your opponents stacks are big enough to warrant the chips you are putting into the pot.

You are about 8 to 1 to hit a set. So if you are putting in 5 you want to make sure the pot is (or is going to be) at least 40. Most players will have an even bigger requirement, even up to 18 to 1 (90 pot) before they would be willing to 'set mine'.

The trend on most sites is moving away from the set mine .. or at least increasing how deep play needs to be to make these limp-calls. The one thing I always look at when playing even if the math looks good is "Are you going to get paid off?" There is a lot of risk involved and you will even lose sometimes when you hit your set so you have to justify the call against the pot and the players who will see the Flop. It does you no good to hit a 762 Flop with 66 if Mr. AK is going to fold to your donk bet!! GL
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01-18-2017 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
You are about 8 to 1 to hit a set. So if you are putting in 5 you want to make sure the pot is (or is going to be) at least 40. Most players will have an even bigger requirement, even up to 18 to 1 (90 pot) before they would be willing to 'set mine'.
do you even implied odds?
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-18-2017 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazamman
do you even implied odds?
Do you even reverse implied odds?
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-19-2017 , 12:26 AM
Agree with a lot of what's been said. It's really table/opponent dependent. Limping to set-mine can be profitable, especially if it's a passive table with a lot of limpers who can't get away from top pair. Odds of flopping a set are 7.5-1, so it costs 8 BB (all limps) to hit a set. If you're at a 1/2 table, where players are usually weak, you'd pay $16 to probably get a pretty big flop off of someone who flops a good pair/two pair/etc. But, if it's a tight table or high blinds it's usually a fold for me from early position, maybe mix in an occasional raise and hope to hit gin on a flop and stack somebody. Really, 22-66 have no value except sets unless as a bluff catcher to go along with some strong reads.
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-19-2017 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meekrab
Do you even reverse implied odds?
The idea of reversed implied odds is taken care of when you look for a higher ratio before you set mine. True set odds are 8 to 1, but a lot of players want to have the potential of at least 15-18 to 1 in order to make up for R.I.O.

You need to decide as a player what you are willing to risk. Make up your own chart:

22-66 ... need 18 to 1 minimum
77-99 ... need 15 to 1 minimum
TT-JJ ... need 12 to 1 min and also play as value hands from time to time
AA-QQ ... need 8 to 1 min and play as value hands 'most' of the time

Once you have this type of chart established in your head, then you consider 2 things:
1) Are the chips out there to cover my requirements
2) Are these players going to pay off those chips if I hit

I tend to agree that in live 1/2 poker that 22-66 can be over-played a lot since your ability to win at showdown is unlikely without a set. GL
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01-19-2017 , 12:40 PM
18 to 1 doesn't mean that the pot has to be 90 if you pay 5. It means you have to win 90 on average, not including the money you put into the pot.
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote
01-20-2017 , 04:44 PM
you would normally not cold call a 3 bet with a small PP but you may well have the right odds to call a 3 bet if you are the open raiser if stacks are deep enough.

It depends on the number of opponents in or likely to enter the pot, the chances of getting raised or 3 bet/squeezed, and a myriad other factors but here are some things to consider when thinking of taking a set mine?

How deep are we? (the more money behind the better)
what's my position? (its much easier to get stacks in when IP)
How strong is my opponent's range (maybe counter-intuitively, it is often better that your opponent has a strong range when you call a pocket pair. This is not exactly a truism as you can also flat vs button raises and play some flops in a non "fit or fold" pure set mine manor, but you prob don't wanna set mine against medium str ranges. You'd rather that you can get your hand to show down sometimes against weaker ranges or get stacks in often when you hit a set against stronger ranges
How many players will see the flop? The more the merrier usually
Opponents post flop tendencies; if my opponent is super nitty you'll rarely stack him when you do flop a set and pocket pairs dont make good bluffing hands post flop. But if your opponent is maniacal you can expect him to bet and barrel a lot of your sets for you and if your opponent is a calling station you get to stack him by way of him not being able to hit the fold button but you want to avoid set mining vs nits and good LAG's and TAGs that will take pot control lines especially when you are OOP

The main factor is the implied odds potential. How much do i have to put in and how much can i potentially win. I will generally take a set mine at 5% effective stacks but I want a little more if the situation has a lot of bad things going for it and maybe I'll take less than 5% if there are some good factors.

Also remember that all pocket pairs are not the same. 22 and 44 are almost the same hand but when you start creeping up to 55 or so the pairs get a good bit stronger as they get bigger. For instance, the difference between 77 and 66 is probably greater than the difference between 22 and 55. 77 will be able to peel some flops so has some built in show down value, it will be second pair some of the time and it will be a slight over pair once in a while and when it is will likely have some other equity in the form of gut shots, open enders, gut shot plus BDFD, etc. And 77 is a lot more likely to over set someone who has open raised than 66 is but 55 may not be much more likely to over set PFR than 44 is because the smaller the pair the less likely it is to get open raised in the first place.

There's actually a lot to consider but mainly implied odds potential is a good place to start and you can kinda adjust from there based on all the other factors.
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01-21-2017 , 02:37 AM
That feeling you get when you flop quads on a ace high flop multi ways xD feels so good.

Glad somebody brought up this discussion. I'm new to poker and have found tough spots with pocket pairs.

I was at 2 final tables today and shoved pocket pairs(7s and 8s) and busted 8th and ninth. Was play wrong? I was under 10 bbs. Both instances I shoved in EP. I was near the bottom in chip stack.

I'm trying to keep ICM in mind but I can't wait for aces to show up in my hand when I'm blinding out.
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01-23-2017 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsaurusrex
I was at 2 final tables today and shoved pocket pairs(7s and 8s) and busted 8th and ninth. Was play wrong? I was under 10 bbs. Both instances I shoved in EP. I was near the bottom in chip stack.

I'm trying to keep ICM in mind but I can't wait for aces to show up in my hand when I'm blinding out.
It's pretty standard to shove 'any' pp when under 10bb unless there are ICM type of factors, basically other short stacks, involved. You aren't really trying to flop a set there so you don't need implied odds. You are just trying to take down the blinds/antes or get into a flip.

Nice job on making the FTs, it would be interesting to see what hands called you. The deeper the large stacks the wider you are going to be called here. It's the big stacks 'job' to roll eyes and make these calls if they are in late position. GL
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02-07-2017 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4
do not raise these hands from the blinds against limpers. fold them in early position.
Disagree strongly on folding small pairs from early position in low stakes casino games. There's a ton of value in these often passive, "TPTK is king" fests if you have any skills post-flop.
How do you play small pocket pairs? Quote

      
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