How do you handle QQ in micros - Beginning Poker Questions

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Beginners and General Questions

How do you handle QQ in micros

Post Reply Subscribe

...

01-08-2021 , 10:15 AM

invet

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 334

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

BB: $5.00 (100 bb)
UTG: $4.10 (82 bb)
MP: $5.00 (100 bb)
CO: $4.86 (97.2 bb)
BTN: $6.10 (122 bb)
Hero (SB): $10.59 (211.8 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Q

UTG calls $0.05, fold, CO raises to $0.20, BTN raises to $0.72, Hero raises to $2.40, fold, UTG raises to $4.10 and is all-in, CO raises to $4.86 and is all-in, fold, Hero

I have always had trouble handling QQ pre at these stakes. Do you call here ? We are getting almost 5 to 1 (17%) for a call. Do you think the 4 bet was ok? The BTN is 21/16 with 8 % 3bet. The CO is TAG (22/17) trying to isolate the UTG (51/12).

Quote

01-08-2021 , 10:59 AM

Duncelanas

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,335

4betting and folding to 5b/overcall seems ok to me, but this 4b size is definitely way too big.

Quote

01-08-2021 , 12:43 PM

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,824

If you are even remotely thinking about putting in half your effective stack then folding to a raise, then leave table preflop

Quote

01-08-2021 , 02:22 PM

invet

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 334

If I am understanding correctly, the problem is with the sizing of the 4 bet, not the 4 bet itself? What would be a good amount to 4 bet here and in general? For 3 bets I am using slightly less that a pot size raise and I was thinking it was ok for 4bets as well.

Quote

01-08-2021 , 06:15 PM

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

Call now.

Quote

01-08-2021 , 08:21 PM

M1ndCtrl

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 78

Why are you 4betting so big, at most make it like a 1.80 here unless you're up against donkeys who call with KTo

Quote

01-08-2021 , 11:59 PM

meekrab

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2,784

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.221% 35.93% 04.29% 324106098 38666701.67 { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 27.173% 22.30% 04.87% 201160014 43932781.67 { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 2: 32.606% 31.88% 00.72% 287561082 6532354.67 { QdQh }

I assumed a 51/12 would only shove pre after trapping by limping the nuts and CO has a fairly normal stackoff range.

You should call.

Quote

01-09-2021 , 02:23 AM

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,517

Quote:

Originally Posted by meekrab

One guy limp/shoves vs a cold 4bet and the next one overshoves with the original 3bettor and 4bettor left to act. I doubt one of them shows up with JJ..

There aren’t many situations where we want to invest so much money pre that we have to call it off even if we know one of the other guys has an overpair. This isn’t one of them.

Quote

01-09-2021 , 02:27 AM

james111

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 6

Do we have any notes on UTG? Has he limped with monsters previously? My feel is 51/12 would raise AKs and AKo so would discount that from the range. Just seems so strong here. Unless I have any notes to suggest he is doing this with anything other than KK AA.

I think we can make the 4bet smaller and fold IMO.

Quote

01-09-2021 , 02:34 AM

#10

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Trivial call for these pot odds but don't get in this situation in the first place. 4-bet to a sizing that isn't committal for nearly your entire range. If there is no reasonable non-committal sizing then shove.

Quote

01-09-2021 , 09:38 AM

#11

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

Trivial call for these pot odds but don't get in this situation in the first place. 4-bet to a sizing that isn't committal for nearly your entire range.

Any time you're given the opportunity to put half your stack in by pressing the pot button, you have to do it

Quote

01-09-2021 , 01:10 PM

#12

Kurn, son of Mogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,242

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1ndCtrl

Why are you 4betting so big, at most make it like a 1.80 here unless you're up against donkeys who call with KTo

Clicking buttons. Looks like a pot raise. Not wrong unless he folds to a shove.

Quote

01-09-2021 , 10:37 PM

#13

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

Any time you're given the opportunity to put half your stack in by pressing the pot button, you have to do it

Committal but not all-in sizes only give the opponent more options.

Quote

01-10-2021 , 08:15 PM

#14

tombos21

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 2,060

You could bet-fold with a 75% sizing ($2). In general I agree that you want to avoid overcommitting in non all-in situations. But tbh I actually like the bigger sizing here.

The effective stack against the 3bettor is 125bb. This is the player I expect to continue against most of the time. A 24bb raise is only 20% of the eff stack in this case. Against the shorter effective stacks 24bb feels overcomittal. So it's an awkward spot.

Quote

01-11-2021 , 09:19 AM

#15

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombos21

You could bet-fold with a 75% sizing ($2)

That seems just as bad

Quote

01-11-2021 , 11:07 AM

#16

invet

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 334

Thanks for the replies!! I called and they showed AA and AK

. I just clicked the pot button and scrolled down a bit

Quote

01-12-2021 , 08:39 PM

#17

tombos21

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 2,060

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

That seems just as bad

What is your play then?

Quote

01-13-2021 , 06:33 PM

#18

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombos21

What is your play then?

I would never be raise/folding half my stack ever

Quote

01-14-2021 , 12:10 AM

#19

tombos21

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 2,060

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

I would never be raise/folding half my stack ever

Sounds like a cop-out. So that leaves folding or getting it in with QQ. What's your play?

Quote

01-14-2021 , 10:40 AM

#20

Kurn, son of Mogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,242

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombos21

Sounds like a cop-out. So that leaves folding or getting it in with QQ. What's your play?

Uh, flat the 3 bet and play poker post flop? For me, I'd need a strong opponent dependent read to not 4 bet - call, but if I thought villain's shove range was limited to KK+, AK I might takes that approach. But TBH, at the stakes I play 50NL the 5 bet shove range for a lot of players includes JJ-99.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...