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How do you deal with fish? How do you deal with fish?

05-24-2017 , 06:24 PM
I've been playing poker for around 1 year and have seen my game improve quite a bit. The only problem I have is the ****ing awful players I come up against. I mainly play micro sit n gos and occasionally micro zoom and they are everywhere. It seems to happen all the ****ing time where these guys will make absolutely dreadful decisions but somehow always get lucky. I know you lot are thinking that I'm just a bad player but I really think my decisions are pretty standard compared to what I see streamed and posted on here. Sorry to rant a bit but I am wondering what I can do to beat these guys??? It infuriates me lol
How do you deal with fish? Quote
05-24-2017 , 06:34 PM
If you're really making the right decisions: volume.
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05-24-2017 , 08:04 PM
Trust me, you aren't losing because everyone else is getting lucky. You're making mistakes, probably big ones. It is hard to identify what they are by yourself. My suggestion is to post a hand where you think someone made a dreadful decision and "got lucky." No need to post the ones where you got it all in on the turn and the villain hit his 2 outer on the river.

I'm going to guess you have a couple where someone called a draw without getting pot odds on the flop, you bet the turn, he raised all in and you called way behind because he hit his unlikely draw. Hint: Those aren't coolers when you have TP or an overpair.
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05-24-2017 , 08:14 PM
60/40s lose 40% of the time. Long term, you DO want to get it in ahead 60/40....but it DOES NOT feel like you are losing only 40%. People seem to discount the quantity and quality of happiness generated when you have 60%.

quality...."well, I was supposed to win so when I win...it was expected. Ho hum. Next hand please."

Lose a 60/40 and the sky has fallen.
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05-24-2017 , 08:23 PM
Usually one of two ways

20% of the time I repeatedly stack them and get like 3 BI.

80% of the time I get it in good on the turn and they hit a 5 outer.
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05-25-2017 , 05:38 AM
Are you tracking your results with PT/HEM?
If your EVbb/100 number is positive, then you just need to put more volume in until your actual results get closer to what's expected. There's a ****ton of variance in the short-run.
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05-25-2017 , 06:48 AM
I believe the canonical response is "Move up to where they respect your raises".

How do I deal with fish? I'm nice to them. I encourage them. I'm as friendly as possible. When they lose a big pot to me, I tell them they were just unlucky or I apologize for sucking out on them. I encourage them to reload and try again.

Fish making mistakes is how you make your money. Look up the "fundamental theorem of poker".

If you are losing money to fishy mistakes, one of two things is happening:
  1. You are on the wrong end of short-term variance, or
  2. You are playing worse than they are.
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05-25-2017 , 09:58 AM
Your question is wrong, must be "How do you deal with tilt?" Because you don't deal with fish, you love them. Don't forget that you are also a fish from someone's perspective.

RNG doesn't care about who makes the right decisions. If you are lucky enough, you won't lose your bankroll in long run. There are many good poker players whose last right decision was to quit poker. There is no guarantee that right decisions will make you money. You must be rich enough to afford the necessary long run. Mentally and economically.

Good luck and love the fish
How do you deal with fish? Quote
05-25-2017 , 05:23 PM
A few thoughts

1. If you are frustrated by getting stacked off on suck outs, play a pot control style and don't play for stacks
2. Avoid high variance forms of poker (turbo tourneys, microstakes, rebuys, etc.)
3. I am always suspicious of people who use derogatory terms to describe people taking their money. Instead of labeling them as 'fish', it is better to characterize and understand their playing style. I have been knocked out of plenty of decent sized tournaments by people who I considered fish (called a 3x raise with 46o, flopped a straight versus my overpair), only to find out later that the player had a over 500K in lifetime tournament winnings. Labeling and dismissing players can be a huge leak, as it can blind you to successful if unconventional styles, and can reinforce in you losing habits.
4. Don't be results oriented. Analyze your decisions, not the outcomes
5. Agree completely that the main issue here is tilt control. If I am getting my stacks in good, or giving a bad price for draws, I can't care how the hand turns out.
6. Always remember your advantages aren't as big as you think. Preflop, even if you are crushing your opponent, they often have a 20% chance of winning. That isn't terribly small.
7. Understand the game, understand your opponents. If you are playing low stakes, fast loose games, expect it to play different that a high buy-in MTT or nosebleed cash game. Adjust your style and your expectation
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05-25-2017 , 06:53 PM
This is not a legitimate problem.

To be a winning player, you need to be playing against players who are worse than you. You then have a skill edge that allows you to, over time, make money because the odds are stacked in your favour.

Complaining about players being worse than you is therefore counterintuitive and there must be some other problem. If you're losing money then I'm afraid that problem is your skill level or you're just really, really unlucky.

The only possible issue with fish is that they might not fold to good bluffs, but equally they might fold to bad bluffs, so eh.
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