Hello folks!

I may differentiate this question a bit further, as the answer to this question clearly depends on the stage of the MTT. Apart from some nonsense blunders in the game, this is the part of my game where I have at the moment the most question marks.

---Risk aversion to call All-Ins from short stacks---

I am speaking of a relatively early stage (Level 7-12) in a medium speed MTT like a Big... (which feels rather a bit quicker than slowerl). The stacks start to shrink, most of the players on the table are somewhat between 18-50BB with the natural exception of some really short and big stacks.
So the bubble is still "far" away and depending on the stack size (between 25-50) you are not really threatened by blinding out.
To get ITM you need somethin around the 3 times starting stack. I mean you can hobble and stumble ITM with probably around 10000 chips if the bubble is close and the situation occurs.

To give an example from my yesterdays play:

76 hands into the MTT, I wasnt much involved besides some mediumish pot which I lost and some smaller pots.
-Sitting at 21BB and 3100 chips left I doubled up from the BB with 65o on 652 vs QQ from UTG

-4 hands later with 44 BB (6700 chips) I called an 2x open with K10s from MP. The big blind shoved for 13-14 BB, the opener folded. Because of the dead money and being him relatively short the pot odds were quite ok, although being aware that this probably isnt a huge +ev spot, but at worst a slighlty -ev spot I called and won-
-62BB (9400) chips
-2 hands later I lost a pot and was at 53BB (8000 chips)

-after this hand the blinds went up, I had 40BB on the button with ATs and I opened 2x . The small blind shoved on me with 16BB. Pot odds are around 41% and after quickly assigning him a range I roughly estimated this as a flip. +EV wise this call made for me more sense than the first one. I lost vs 22 and was left with 23bb.
- a couple of hands later I busted because I made a big nonsenses play.

To sum this up:

This isnt the rule, but this isnt the exception in my game as well. Sometimes its wild and splashy - to some degree the nature of a MTT format. Playing my bust out hand a different way (which after reviewing makes totally sense) I probably would have been left with either 20 or 15BB and take it from there as a jamming/rejamming stack.


Thoughts and questions:

Of course with ICM applications, especially on the final table this is a different story. But I would like to know from other people hanging around here, how they approach these kind of stack sizes in general? How they would have approached my hands? (Calling All-ins with K10s and ATs with some marginal +/- ev spots and some /probably/ smaller +ev spots)
Edit: I made some researches to dig deeper into this topic but I didnt find any in-depth stuff. I read in the book by Acevedo that he covers the section, when sb. open a pot with 10-25BB and its shoved on whats GTO-like the best play (calling/folding). But when little bit deeper, there is no respond to an allin, just to non allin 3bets.
Does it mean we should call just with high equity such rejamming stacks?

A certain question: Open to 3x from the button (ATs) to get even better pot odds for calling his shove? Maybe this raise size folds out some portion of his range he would usually shove? Or is a bigger raise size just a justification for calling his all in?


Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts. Happy Friday for all of you! (( :

protect your stack. there is nothing wrong with waiting rather than pushing every hand where you perceive you have an edge.

you seem to be making a bunch of plays with really marginal stuff, which really needs deeper stacks to be profitable when you hit your miracle flop, and just bleeds chips away otherwise. or, if you cannot fold when jammed on, sets them on fire. if you are going to call a jam from a third party, then just 3-bet the initial raiser if you're going to take the (often correct) approach that you're a dog to the field and want to gamble it up, get a big stack that can go deep, or go home early and not waste time in a excessively long donkament just to mincash. otherwise, learn to fold. part of your problem is this:

Pot odds are around 41% and after quickly assigning him a range I roughly estimated this as a flip

you've got AT and get jammed on. AA-TT crush you. AK-AJ crush you. 99-22 is a flip. KQ/KJ/QJ you're only slightly ahead (heck, 32o beats you ~1/3 of the time). exactly how many crap aces do you think are in the opponent's range that remove all the hands that crush you and make it 50/50 (which, in a donkament, you shouldn't be massively enthused to take without a big chip overlay)? i would love to see that range. maybe if he's jamming any two?

Thanks for your clear words, I like.

Yeah MTTs like the one I posted felt a bit loose and splashy, but sometimes there are question marks left.
You ve got a point about folding. I hate folding. ( ; I ve got that on my list to work on and will put more focus into it.


The only part I (slightly) disagree is the range I assigned for him.
About the rejamming range:

I made some equity training off the felt the days and weeks ago and if i remember correctly he is supposed to shove all the suited aces and even lot of the unsuited ones,
Most of the broadway stuff and even some suited x9s. Against this range, its a flip. But I will check it later to make it clear.

The question is does he really shove that wide and furthermore do I still should take these slighlty positive spots if the range is "correctly" assigned.

Indeed. This is part of the problem of beginners think learning GTO - you don't need a guide on how to beat someone supposedly playing perfectly (besides, that guide is three words long), you need a guide to beat the players in front of you

Yeah, agree. Besides the theoretical and mathematical background, it serves well for me as a starting point. Not as a religion, I base every decision on.

I forgot to mention and to make it more practical again...

On the micro stakes, its not pretty uncommon to shove all the Ax from SB,BB and even worse hands. Very player and skill level dependent, but happens.

Its good to know the theoretical en mathematical background. But from there on you need to adjust to the tendecies off the player pool.
In micros is its fairly loose-passive play

From theoretical standpoint they need to re-jamm all those Ax hands.
But in het real world it is what Six-Four says. Player pool rejamms fairly tight and rather flat al those medium hands.

You can counter that with raise/folding more vs rejamms and attack their weak range when they flat.
Take notes when a player shoves wider.

I actually disagree with most of this, particularly the ATs hand, thats a snap call off. I also think the concept of stack preservation is overrated in MTTs, except in situations where you are near a significant pay jump (money bubble, ft bubble and FT, etc). Our goal is still the win the tournament, which means we need to win the chips. Chips gained are worth less than chips lost so we shouldn't take neutral EV spots, but we cant go around passing up marginal +EV spots either.

65o is a standard defend in the bb and then the flop plays itself.

KTs is a mix between flat and 3bet from mp vs an ep open. Id lean toward 3betting with shorties in the blinds. Once you get shoved on you need ~40%, which you probably do not have against the BB's range. KTs has 35% equity vs the top 10% of hands.

ATs is a snap call off vs a 16bb shove sb v btn unless the sb is one of the most passive villains ever. Vs a proper sb shoving range (top 25%) ATs has 53% equity, and if we tighten up to top 15%, ATs has 44% which is still plenty enough to call given our pot odds.



A key concept when shorter stacked, your implied AND reverse implied odds on hands go down. So while if you have 15bb, you can't call a raise with 76s looking to flop a nutted hand and win a 200bb pot. You CAN defend your BB with 76s (and offsuit) looking to flop a pair or decent draw and get stacks in vs a cbet (on most boards).

This also effects opening ranges, for example at 100bb stacks from EP we are folding some some offsuit broadways like ATo, KTo, QJo and adding weaker suited connectors like T8s, 87s, etc. But at 15-20bb, you drop the weak suited connectors and add more offsuit broadways.