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Help me understand "Only getting called by better hands" **NEW** legionrainfall Containment Help me understand "Only getting called by better hands" **NEW** legionrainfall Containment

05-11-2020 , 07:07 PM
19VPIP full ring is loose; at least it was in 2014 when the video was released.
3% is 99+, AKs
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05-11-2020 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
But doesn't this disguise his strength when he simply calls?
Yes but would you rather I have a better idea of what you have in bigger pots (raised) or smaller pots (not raised)?
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05-11-2020 , 08:48 PM
Good point!
So, when he raises, just fold.
When he calls, be aware he's got a large range (fold to bets)
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05-11-2020 , 10:26 PM
Ok, is this an example of "only getting called by worse"?
This time, I check/folded when there is better cards showing on the flop.
Lots of money saved?

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 98 BB
BB: 146.5 BB
UTG: 99.5 BB
Hero (UTG+1): 110 BB
MP: 159 BB
MP+1: 101.5 BB
CO: 263 BB
BTN: 58.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (9.5 BB, 2 players) J Q A
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 5 BB, fold

MP+1 wins 9.5 BB
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05-11-2020 , 10:37 PM
Well not exactly that beacuse there are some combos that you're ahead of on the flop that might call, but x/folding is fine nonetheless.
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05-11-2020 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
because every time were in a hand that you open, i know what you have.
Not really, a 19/3 doesn't always raise a linear range preflop.
He might limp AK/QQ+ and open 77 or KTo.
Or mostly mix a lot of limps and rarely raising some stuff, tough to say anyway beacuse there's really no logic reason to play a 19/3 strat.
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05-11-2020 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iblis
Not really, a 19/3 doesn't always raise a linear range preflop.
He might limp AK/QQ+ and open 77 or KTo.
riiiiight yeah ....
yeah or maybe he just folds all those hands and only opens the bottom 3% of garbage
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05-12-2020 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
Still can't grasp this idea.
The other person does not know your cards.
So how can you say "only better hands will call"?
That's like saying "Only buy stocks that go up"
You simply don't know that.

If there is a flush draw on the board, many experts will donk bet, and rep the flush. So, some people will gladly call and catch you. Bluff catcher?

You're talking as if NO ONE ever calls with 2nd best possible hand. That's simply not true at all. If that were true, EVERYONE would donk bet with any A on the board, every time, since everyone will fold anything less.

I am simply unable to fathom how this mindreading assumption works.

Hero = QJh
Flop = As Qs Ks

You're saying that NO ONE with Ax would call a bet here? B/c they will never call with 2nd best hand? IF so, then I should bet every time here, right ? Rep the flush? Well, if that's the case, then everyone with Ax knows you're donking, and will start calling your bluff with 2nd best hand.

Full circle?
You asked about a concept, and then are suggesting that it applies to every situation. But it is a concept that applies in certain situations, and you have to be able to recognize them. It is a situation that is generally on the river, because before that people will often call with worse hands than whatever someone might have - because they always have hope, and probably outs.

Imagine you are on the river, and the board has 4 spades, and 3 to a straight. You have a middle spade, for an okay flush. Based on the way the hand has played, you are sure your opponent has high cards, so if he has a spade he probably has the nuts. He bets 2/3 of the pot leaving about a pot sized bet left.

You know he could be bluffing, so you don't plan on folding. If you raise - he will call with a higher spade and will fold with anything else. Your raise accomplishes nothing except to give him a lot of money if you are beat. A call will get you exactly the same amount of money, without risking losing it all.

Take the same situation, but you have nothing, and you think he doesn't have a good spade but whatever he has is better than you. This is a situation where you can raise. There are better hands that will fold. You can't call because then you are throwing money away. This is a straight bluff.

In the earlier situation, you may think you have a winning hand and are betting for value - but you have to realize you simply won't get value from any hands that are calling.

So this isn't every hand or every river - but there are times where you think you are ahead and it still doesn't make sense to bet.
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05-12-2020 , 11:19 AM
A 19/3 would almost certainly be a losing player, because he's not winning the blinds very often by raising to steal them, and when he raises (3% of the time) he'll typically only have monster hands, so he's easy to read.
He's limping and flatting pre too often. Neither of those things make money.
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05-12-2020 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
Hero raises to 4 BB
On a nitty site, where players are more likely to fold or 3-bet than call, opening to 4x is probably excessive, especially with mid-strength hands like TT.
I'd use a smaller size with all hands in all positions, but if I was going to open larger with a few hands to exploit calling stations, I'd do it with KK+ only. TT can't c-bet as often as KK+ can, so there's little point in bloating the pot pre-flop with it.
(FWIW, I have notes on several players that routinely open for 4x with JJ/TT and AK, but 3x with everything else, as if they are particularly scared of getting action with those "tricky" hands. Bet-sizing tells are a goldmine for observant players.)

The check-fold was fine. You have plenty of other hands that make more sense as c-bets on that board.
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05-13-2020 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iblis
Well not exactly that beacuse there are some combos that you're ahead of on the flop that might call, but x/folding is fine nonetheless.
Which combos are going to call with QJA flop, but are worse than TT?
Draws?

Any hand with QJA has me beat.
Any PP below 99 will fold.
So, what exactly do I have beat, that will call?
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05-13-2020 , 09:03 AM
Arty, I was doing 3BB for all bets,, but was told that is too small. So I changed it to 4BB. I guess I will make it back to 3BB. Agree that tighter the table, the less you want to bet. Only getting called by better hands
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05-13-2020 , 09:18 AM
77 got raised. Call, bet, or fold?

First hand of tourney.

77 in EP
Hero bets 2BB.
Next guy raises it to 6BB.

Call, bet, or fold?
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05-13-2020 , 11:00 AM
First hand of session.

77 in EP
Hero bets 2BB.
Next guy raises it to 6BB.

Call, bet, or fold?
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05-13-2020 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
First hand of session.



77 in EP

Hero bets 2BB.

Next guy raises it to 6BB.



Call, bet, or fold?
Call, you are basically trying to hit a set, you are probably check/folding most flops because villain's range is pretty tight vs EP

I recommend to.look for some preflop charts there are plenty of them and you can have them in-game

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05-13-2020 , 12:44 PM
Call
If it was the second hand of the session though... that's a clear fold then (jk)

Also why open to 2?
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05-13-2020 , 01:19 PM
Need stack sizes and table info bruh
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05-13-2020 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
This puts me ahead of 99% of poker players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
.0000000000000001% of players know you can discuss hands in a forum
Get out of your little bubble.
99% of poker players have no idea what "OTB" or "C-bet" means

93.47% of statistics found on the internet are made up nonsense.
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05-13-2020 , 02:58 PM
I think his comment about being better than 99% of the population at poker isn't ridiculous at all. In that he is probably a tiny bit better than the worst huge chunk of players. Particularly if he meant everyone who has played poker.

You only have to go back 20 years for a b/e 25nl zoom player now to probably be by far the best player ever.
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05-13-2020 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSS
I think his comment about being better than 99% of the population at poker isn't ridiculous at all. In that he is probably a tiny bit better than the worst huge chunk of players. Particularly if he meant everyone who has played poker.

.
Finally, someone who understands math
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05-13-2020 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsHlVW2Iyh8

Why would V check on the turn?
I don't understand, you post a video that explains (admittedly in a qualitative way but touches on some good points).

What you maybe don't realise is that when villains bet hero's are correct to fold parts of their range. So usually when villains bet heros hand range gets stronger and more narrow. So villain should be thinking about what strong hands they have on the turn, what middle strength hands they have and what weak hands they have (of which some should be bluffs and others should check which is more complicated).

So if villain has a medium strength hand, something they want to realise more equity or not suitable to go into their bluffing range on the turn they would check. Or other hand wavy reasons like they get more money from inducing bluffs on the river etc.
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05-13-2020 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsHlVW2Iyh8

Why would V check on the turn?
What does V have?
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05-13-2020 , 07:07 PM
Lets see if I get this
The smart player knows "only called by stronger hands"
Well, when hero check/called, V should think Hero has nuts or a draw.
Then 7 turn. Check again. 2 checks means slow play monster at 2NL.
River 8 and Hero checks AGAIN. 3 checks means nuts or busted draw.
So, Why doesn't V bet on River.
Everyone knows to fold to any river bet
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05-13-2020 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsHlVW2Iyh8

Why would V check on the turn?
On the turn you want to play a polarize strategy (good draws + strong hands) the rest of your range (middle hands, air and weak draws) are checking, so that's why V checked.

Another way to see this is. Is V hand strong enough to bet 3 streets? If not then you want to check on the turn. If V has 66 can he bet 3 streets and be called by worse hands? Most of the time no, so check.

Another example
We have QJc
Flop : AJh4s we cbet 1/3 of pot
Turn : 5s we have second pair, we are winning most of the time but we don't want to bet 3 streets, besides there are 2 flush draws so half of the rivers complete the flush in which case we don't want to be betting. So we check
River: 8c now if villain check he should have almost never an A so we can bet 1/3 and we are probably getting called by worse specially vs a fish than can call with anything




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