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hand ranges without stats hand ranges without stats

04-08-2012 , 04:46 PM
How do I estimate a hand range of my opponents without the use of stats?
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 04:51 PM
reads you have developed so far on this particular villain
reads you have developed so far on the play in general at your stake
players position
prior action in the hand, or last hand (tilted?)
bet sizing
players already in the pot, and those still behind
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 05:02 PM
get HEM or PT3 free trial, hey presto, STATS!
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew
reads you have developed so far on this particular villain
reads you have developed so far on the play in general at your stake
players position
prior action in the hand, or last hand (tilted?)
bet sizing
players already in the pot, and those still behind
I am a beginner, playing live/limit games (casino and home). I am familiar with the first two. Could you expand on the last three:

Quote:
prior action in the hand, or last hand (tilted?)
Is the player on tilt? but is the range played on tilt specific to the player? How? Why?

Quote:
bet sizing
Here is where I may step out of bounds because I play limit and very little NL, but in NL isn't the range correlated to stack size?

Quote:
players already in the pot, and those still behind
I have no idea really unless this is in regards to your current position and the positions left to make decisions (raise/call/fold). Even then I still don't know so, How does this affect range estimates?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by farmerdd; 04-08-2012 at 08:45 PM.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 09:43 PM
How do we play poker without any reads.

for example

we have KA. Since our hand has 65% equity against one opponent should we bet for value? and bet to knock players out.

Last edited by King Spew; 04-08-2012 at 10:47 PM. Reason: I merged these two threads because you are asking essentially the same question
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 10:10 PM
Play tight. Play ABC. The whole aim of poker is to play to develop reads and then exploit that knowledge to our gain, but untill we get to that point we should assume that someone has "it" untill we can start to make assumptions. Overwise you are just playing totally blind.

We want to play a way that affords the lease amount of risk against competent players and should give us a good enough return against the idiots.

AKo for example is a bet from any position in an unopened pot. Aside from that though its the classic phrase of "It depends". AKo has 65% equity preflop vs. any random hand. After that it's a whole chorus of things that come into play.

It depends on if I get 3bet, am I in position or out of position, is there a short stack to consider, flop texture, what stakes am I playing and so on and on.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 10:46 PM
I would only be guessing farmerdd as I do not play live,,, and I do not play limit. My guesses might be on target....but they are just as likely to miss the mark. Sorry.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by experiencesin
How do I estimate a hand range of my opponents without the use of stats?
Playing live, the only way to tell is to observe your oppoents. Live you get to see showdowns a lot more when you are not involved in the hand so make sure you are paying attention to what people flip over when you aren't in the hand. I usually focus mostly on the players sitting closest to me and after getting reads on them I expand out. Play ABC poker against anyone you don't have a solid read over. Play agressive, raise your draws and don't be afriad to check raise top pair weak kicker on the flop when you are out of position. Be smart and agressive and realize that getting reads on people when you only play 35 hands an hour tops, is not going to be easy. Stick to the fundamentals.

Oh yeah, wanted to add, dont' get married to your hands but if it's a big pot, be less inclined to fold. If it's a small pot, be more inclined to fold.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymoth
Play tight. Play ABC. The whole aim of poker is to play to develop reads and then exploit that knowledge to our gain, but untill we get to that point we should assume that someone has "it" untill we can start to make assumptions. Overwise you are just playing totally blind.

We want to play a way that affords the lease amount of risk against competent players and should give us a good enough return against the idiots.

AKo for example is a bet from any position in an unopened pot. Aside from that though its the classic phrase of "It depends". AKo has 65% equity preflop vs. any random hand. After that it's a whole chorus of things that come into play.

It depends on if I get 3bet, am I in position or out of position, is there a short stack to consider, flop texture, what stakes am I playing and so on and on.
is this a ABC play?

We have 99

the flop is Q 6 2

against one opponent we have 72.1% equity. random hand.

Should we be raising this flop for value? If we get re-raised do we re-raise for value?

We have no reads on our opponent.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-08-2012 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by experiencesin
is this a ABC play?

We have 99

the flop is Q 6 2

against one opponent we have 72.1% equity. random hand.

Should we be raising this flop for value? If we get re-raised do we re-raise for value?

We have no reads on our opponent.
He doens't have a random hand if he raised now does he. If you have no reads on him than you have to assume he is competent. Depending on preflop action would determine how I played this hand. There is not enough information in your example to say what play would be correct however capping does seem a little silly here. The question is should you call the third bet and what actions should you take on the turn.

I'll try to use your example.

Let's say you were in late positon and raised with 99, everyone folded expect the big blind who called (2BB) we will just assume the small blind is gone to the rake at this point.

the flop is Q 6 2

Villain bets,
should you call or raise. I would probably raise for a free card here. and you have showdown value. So if he calls you have a pot with (4BB) and if he raises you have to call .5BB to win 4.5BB which is 9:1, you have to figure you have 2 outs now, which gives you 5% chance of catching a 9 on the turn and a 10% chance of catching by the river.

This looks like an easy fold, but let's say you can get 1BB on each street if you hit on the turn, you are really getting 6.5BB with a .5BB call. which is now 13:1 or about 7%. Pretty close to worth calling especially if he is likely to raise on the turn. Based on this I like calling.

So, the line I would take here if villain bets into you is raise on the flop. Call if reraised. Check or Fold on the turn. I would probably make a crying call on the river if I get there unimproved.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-09-2012 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhitesj
So if he calls you have a pot with (4BB)
how do we have a pot with 4BB?
and i assume its LIMIT holdem your talking about.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-09-2012 , 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by experiencesin
how do we have a pot with 4BB?
and i assume its LIMIT holdem your talking about.

Yes I'm talking about limit

BB = Big Bets so if your playing 3/6 one big bet = 6

again, you raised pf to 1BB, and the big blind called for .5BB plus the .5BB he posted as the blind. The small blind posted .25BB or some fraction and I said just count that as going to the rake.

After he bets' .5BB and you raise to 1BB, if he calls there are 4BB, 2BB went in preflop, and a bet and a called rasie is 2BB post flop.
hand ranges without stats Quote
04-09-2012 , 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhitesj
Yes I'm talking about limit

BB = Big Bets so if your playing 3/6 one big bet = 6

again, you raised pf to 1BB, and the big blind called for .5BB plus the .5BB he posted as the blind. The small blind posted .25BB or some fraction and I said just count that as going to the rake.

After he bets' .5BB and you raise to 1BB, if he calls there are 4BB, 2BB went in preflop, and a bet and a called rasie is 2BB post flop.
ah i understand now.
hand ranges without stats Quote

      
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