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Hand Question Hand Question

03-01-2017 , 01:49 PM
Hey guys, even though I'm new to posting on this sub, I've been lurking here for quite some time. I came across this hand while playing 0.05/0.10 and felt the need to get help understanding it.

Any help will be appreciated.

PokerStars - €0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 29.66, PFR: 10.17, 3Bet Preflop: 2.08, Hands: 120)
BTN: 131.2 BB (VPIP: 22.03, PFR: 13.56, 3Bet Preflop: 4.17, Hands: 61)
SB: 116.6 BB (VPIP: 21.62, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 77)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 13.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
Hero (UTG): 126.6 BB
MP: 97.1 BB (VPIP: 24.07, PFR: 20.37, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 57)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 2 9 8
Hero bets 3.3 BB, CO calls 3.3 BB

Turn: (14.1 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 4.3 BB, CO raises to 12 BB, Hero calls 7.7 BB

River: (38.1 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 11.6 BB, CO raises to 86.2 BB and is all-in, fold

CO wins 58.2 BB



Should have I folded on the turn 3-bet? It makes no sense to call turn and then fold river, right? So it's either fold turn or call river? I put him on 710, but I guess he could have 22, 99, 99, and 66.

Last edited by chinaskey; 03-01-2017 at 01:54 PM.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 02:10 PM
That is a turn raise, not a three bet

Bet more on the turn if you're going to bet, that's way too small sizing. Can't fold once you spike top set on the river, although whether I lead is another question, I'd probably just let villain bet. If I do bet I bet closer to $3 or so
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 03:11 PM
Well played until the river which is definitely a call. Putting villain on 107 is not the right way to think about the river decision. Villain can have a range of different hands here (99s, 88s, 66s). The 16 J10 combos are your biggest concern and I dont think villain makes a large turn raise with that hand. Your beating nearly every value hand in this range. 107 is right at the top of villains range.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 03:17 PM
Well played until the river which is definitely a call. Putting villain on 107 is not the right way to think about the river decision. Villain can have a range of different hands here (99s, 88s, 66s). The 16 J10 combos are your biggest concern and I dont think villain makes a large turn raise with that hand. Your beating nearly every value hand in this range. 107 is right at the top of villains range.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkytheFish
The 16 J10 combos are your biggest concern and I dont think villain makes a large turn raise with that hand.
If it's spades I'm doing that
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 04:05 PM
I don't lead on that river after calling turn raise. Maybe I do with a straight if villain is a calling station, but not with a set. check-call 99% of the time
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 04:56 PM
You're dead on the turn when villain raises sets and 98 on the flop.

When he just calls the flop to hide his hand strength you are almost dead when he raises on the turn:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
1,276 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 2986
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
QdQh7.52% 960
22,99,88,66,98,7x5x,Tx7x92.48% 1,1800

River is an easy call when he doesn't raise flop with his strong hands:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
29 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 2986Q
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
QdQh72.41% 210
22,99,88,66,98,7x5x,Tx7x27.59% 80

Based on his stats I'm guessing he isn't capable of bluff raising the turn regardless that you induced with your scared bets.

I also think his stats suggest he would raise the flop with his sets and 98 so it's fine to over-fold when he raises the turn.

Calling his turn raise shouldn't influence your decision on the river. You should re-evaluate on every street.

I'm not that experienced yet and I wonder if I should be commenting on hands yet especially if I was to get it wrong a lot. I read many of the stickies which encourage people to comment. If I'm way off the mark I'd hope someone would chime in to let me know.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reso8
I'm not that experienced yet and I wonder if I should be commenting on hands yet especially if I was to get it wrong a lot. I read many of the stickies which encourage people to comment.
Yep, and possibly being wrong is exactly why you should explain your reasons for doing things. It lets others know how you're approaching a problem and makes it much easier to point out any obvious mistakes or bad assumptions you're making.
Quote:
If I'm way off the mark I'd hope someone would chime in to let me know.
Looked solid to me, aside from folding the turn. If OP had made a better bet there I'd be cool folding but I feel like the combo of our equity and the potential for villain to be stealing against such a small bet means it's worth calling.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reso8
I also think his stats suggest he would raise the flop with his sets and 98 so it's fine to over-fold when he raises the turn.
Most people don't raise two pair or better on such a dry flop and they actually tend to raise the turn with those hands. That's why the scariest line you can face from a bad player is call flop raise turn.

Quote:
I'm not that experienced yet and I wonder if I should be commenting on hands yet especially if I was to get it wrong a lot. I read many of the stickies which encourage people to comment. If I'm way off the mark I'd hope someone would chime in to let me know.
Do you think I'm right 100% of the time? Opinions aren't worth anything, the arguments that they are based upon are. Having your arguments tested is the fastest way to improve.
Hand Question Quote
03-01-2017 , 07:37 PM
make everything bigger post. like betting 4 into 14 on the turn makes it look like you really didn't want to bet. i dont rly know why

had you bet bigger on the turn, getting raised would be more marginal. no obvious draws get there and he could have a bunch of semibluffs that gained equity on the turn, and of his value range he's only repping sets and 98. I'd lean towards a call but with the given sizing it's a definite call

river is a check/raise always. he has the betting lead, you've caught up on his value range and the river's a brick to him. check/raising gets more money in the pot - if you bet he may have no reason to raise his value range.

as played it's a call. it's almost inconceivable how you can think you're losing here. you're beating sets and 98, and you've taken a piss weak line this whole hand
Hand Question Quote
03-02-2017 , 09:17 PM
I use a different line that involves checking the flop or turn (if not both), but what I really don't understand is the river lead and then a fold. What purpose does your small river bet have? It looks like you're trying to induce a raise that you want to snap-call.
If you're worried about straights, check-call the river so that you're not playing for stacks. Don't fold top set though, unless there's a 4-flush or 4-liner. You beat all the other sets and 2prs.
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