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Was this fold good? Was this fold good?

08-21-2014 , 03:02 PM
Villain was 29/20 over 500 hands and his 3bet stat was 8.1

Half contemplated a 4bet but called instead. Didn't have any reads that he was particularly bluffy so folded my 1010. Was the play good? thanks





    Pacific, $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #29834251

    BB: $20.27 (67.6 bb)
    MP: $37.61 (125.4 bb)
    Hero (CO): $54.82 (182.7 bb)
    BTN: $31.65 (105.5 bb)
    SB: $30 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with T T
    MP folds, Hero raises to $1.20, BTN raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.80

    Flop: ($8.45) 3 A 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $6.33, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $8.45 pot ($0.42 rake)
    Final Board: 3 A 5
    Hero mucked T T and lost (-$4 net)
    BTN mucked and won $8.03 ($4.03 net)



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    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 04:27 PM
    Why the 4x raise pre?

    It's this type of villain that you need to work on away from the table to identify their leaks.

    Sure he 3bets a lot, but from what positions is he widest? How does he react to 4bets IP or OOP etc?

    Also his sizing is pretty big for a standard 3bet. Is that a tell?

    If he's the type to only 5bet shove QQ+ and AK then you can 4bet/fold TT as they play badly if you get all in in that situation. If he flats really wide then you can 4bet for pure value

    Problem is if you flat you're gonna often see overcards, so you need to know something of villain postflop. Is he one and done or just keeps firing? If you have info then I think a call is ok and play postflop, if you have no idea then fold to the 3bet and stick to value OOP against this guy and just tussle with the fish
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 04:55 PM
    oop there's nothing you can do on this flop
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 05:13 PM
    This is a difficult spot that relies on knowing a lot of different things about the villain like Dunna100 mentioned.

    As a standard though, i would not 4bet this hand and just call pre.
    And also as a standard, i would probably check fold the flop
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 05:18 PM
    So what is your plan when you call the 3bet OOP?

    You are miles away from having the implied odds to set mine and an overcard is coming to your pp more often than not...you are also oop.

    4bet/4bet shove and fold are all better preflop options than calling and this would be true even if villain was 3betting tighter.

    Calling pre with no post flop plan is a leak.

    Calling pre to set mine without the right implied odds is not a plan.

    Calling pre to check/fold on most flops is also not a plan.
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 05:36 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fatboy54
    So what is your plan when you call the 3bet OOP?

    You are miles away from having the implied odds to set mine and an overcard is coming to your pp more often than not...you are also oop.

    4bet/4bet shove and fold are all better preflop options than calling and this would be true even if villain was 3betting tighter.

    Calling pre with no post flop plan is a leak.

    Calling pre to set mine without the right implied odds is not a plan.

    Calling pre to check/fold on most flops is also not a plan.
    The problem with a lot of this is assuming our range is TT in this spot when it really depends what our range is made up of. The sizing puts me off a bit but I think TT is a really standard call in this spot assuming sizing was more "normal".

    We also need to have some idea of the hands he 3bets to actually know what we should be doing postflop but Ace high flops just suck a little when we have upper-mid PPs as a lot of his range will be Ax type hands (his PPs that beat us tend to slow down) so folding here ain't going to be awful.
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-21-2014 , 06:16 PM
    Played fine.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MMSS
    Ace high flops just suck a little when we have upper-mid PPs as a lot of his range will be Ax type hands
    Nails it. ^^^

    With this action, sizing and board texture, you can only really continue with AQs-ATs (assuming you 4-bet AK and KK). While it would be nice to be able to call with a frequency that prevents villain from profiting with ATC, on this particular flop you probably have to fold about 80% of your range (depending on how wide it is in the first place).

    On Kxx flops, I think you can check-call, as villain will have Ace high pretty often.
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-22-2014 , 03:56 AM
    1 (re Dunna100). Raised 4x pre as I was in CO so representing a little more strength than button plus he was pretty loose with 3bet so figured he might 3bet light and I would get more money in the pot. Though thinking about it doing this from OOP probably wasn't the best plan.

    Didn't have any tells on him but good point re his bet sizing

    2.(re Fatboy54) Plan re what how to play- this a good point. Now I think about it, overcards are very likely on the flop, which don't hit me but hit his range hard and are good cards for him to value bet or bluff on. Best flop for me is a low flop, so I guess I would hope for a low flop and check fold on a flop with overcards?

    3. (re MMS) If we call this OOP, what would be your plan postflop?

    4.(re ArtySmokes) I agree with your continuing range. So you are saying we fold 80% of our range on this flop? Seems very high no? Surely we would also have a lot of Ax hands in our 3bet calling range? I guess my 3bet calling range would be something like 99+, AJ+, would prob fold KQ, maybe a little wider re a light 3bettor.

    thanks for all the comments
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-22-2014 , 09:26 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bucski
    4.(re ArtySmokes) I agree with your continuing range. So you are saying we fold 80% of our range on this flop? Seems very high no? Surely we would also have a lot of Ax hands in our 3bet calling range? I guess my 3bet calling range would be something like 99+, AJ+, would prob fold KQ, maybe a little wider re a light 3bettor.
    If your calling range pre-flop is 99+/AJ+ (And you 4-bet KK/AA) then on a flop like this, you have AK, AQ and AJ in your continuing range. QQ-99 would be folded, unless you want to call one street with QQ.
    In terms of combos, if you have offsuit AQ and AJ in your range, you'd actually have top pair 60% of the time, so wouldn't be folding as often as I would.
    I personally think calling the 3-bet with AJo is a mistake (and AQo is really iffy) but the suited versions are fine, although they make up fewer combos. Since my own range for calling the 3-bet is less ace-heavy than yours, I'd be folding this particular flop more often than you. I'd be more able to continue on Kxx/Qxx/Jxx though, because I've got a few suited Broadway hands in my range.
    Was this fold good? Quote
    08-22-2014 , 09:31 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bucski

    3. (re MMS) If we call this OOP, what would be your plan postflop?
    Dunno, you've got 500 hands on the guy and have given us no notes and not thought that postflop stats might be important, although his 3b pot stats might be a bit irrelevant due to sample size.

    I'm also **** at poker so ya know wouldn't listen to what I had to say about strat anyway.
    Was this fold good? Quote

          
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